DirtyComanche Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 GW's from 70 something to 88ish came with D44 fronts ALWAYS. Earlier ones could come with a D44, but it's passenger drop. Or they came with a D28 or something. Anyways, you want the later ones. Just make SURE it is not a vac disco axle. They are weird. The vacuum actuator is cast into the pumpkin by the ring gear. Really screwy $#!&. Luckily they only did that for two years, so they're pretty rare. As far as what else you'll need for a 4x4 conversion, a GW is unlikely to be helpful. Unless you want to swap in a 360/TH400/NP229 combo. So just go to the wreckers and get a front axle. A complete cherokee can make a good parts donor. But not really in your case. Personally I'd get a YJ/TJ NP231 tcase, and a cherokee AW4. The YJ/TJ tcase is clocked higher, which is something I really wish I had. Then you'll jsut have to get misc. parts from the junkyard more often, but a complete donor vehicle is not necessary with what you already have. Oh, and you'll need adapters for you D44 rear to run the chevy 6 bolt pattern from the GW. You can't adapt the D44 front to the smaller 5x4.5 pattern. You can change it to the ford 5x5.5 pattern though. That is, if you D44 rear is from a cherokee/comanche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well hopefully I can find a GW aroundhere somewhere, I walked around the junkyard closest to me...they seem to have EVERYTHING seen an 69 mustang fastback...lol WOW also seen 12 MJ's, I couldn't even count the XJ's, but no yj's didn't see a GW either, but wasn't looking for one at all. so you say early 80's would be best? Are the gw's common?? or are they a rarer jeep that I will pay big bucks to rip apart?? is the D$$ rear from a waggy same as MJ d44? or very little difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 They're rare, but nobody wants them. Well, at least they seem fairly rare here. I keep track of all the FSJs. There's 4 in my area, one is in the jyard, and another I could pick up for $200. Just look around, they tend to wind up sitting in feilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Oh, and the D44s are similar. The GW one is a hair narrower I think, at 58" WMS to WMS (IIRC). However, it already has the 6-bolt pattern that matches the front. A lot of them got AMC20's though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Personally, I would hesitate swapping in a Grand Wagoneer front axle. The strength increase of a low pinion Dana 44 over a high pinion Dana 30 (with the upgraded joints) just isn't worth all the hassle in my opinion. This is a Grand Wagoneer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 General list price around here for one is $500, and that's for one that runs, maybe not well, but runs all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The locals in my area have found it to be considerably stronger than the HPD30. While the entire HP front LP rear for strength concept is true, in reality it's not much of a strength difference. And you get bigger ball joints, real hubs, better knuckles, etc. The HPD30's R&P is just too small... I'd like to run a HP front to save my poor D/S. Not really for strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 How many gear failures have you heard of? I'm not saying they are stong, but I just don't hear of too many failures of the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Of what? HP30s? Well, mine. And about 4 others (that I know personally). They aren't common because most people get pissed off with spending a fortune on unit bearings, or obliderate ball joints and decide it's time to upgrade. Or they never break anything because they don't know how to have fun :nanner: But I've seen stock carriers fail too. A D44 under a relativly light rig (Comanche) can hold 36/37" tires without much issue. At least that seems to be the case with the CJ/YJ guys. That's without chromos. Also, the D44 has better aftermarket upgrades. And if you dump coin into a HPD30, you're going to get what? Well, you theortically could build a pretty stout HPD30 with 30spline chromos, CTMs, a detroit, the hub conversion kit, etc. Lots of coin. But it'll hold what? 35s reliably? Inchitis hits and you blow it up. Besides, the 30spline chromos are theoretically stronger than the R&P. And I broke my R&P with stock 260X shafts. Oh, and what if you have to back up? Then the HPD30 is even weaker... Not much, but the R&P is weaker. I'll admit I'm not the best driver, going forewards is not always an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Oops, hold on. I don't think I said that quite right in my last post. Lemme clarify. I can't argue with the Dana 44 having better everything. It simply does. I'm just saying that for a small investment someone can get a 4.10 geared Dana 30 and 297 axleshafts (rarely from the same axle unfortunately) from a junkyard, bolt it in, and handle 33s just fine. :D I do not condone spending the coin on chromoly anything for a Dana 30. It's just not worth it. 35" tires give only 1" more ground clearance over 33s, but the headaches of making them work properly go up considerably. Not everyone wants to take the sawzall to their rig. And apparently I got my shots to immunize against inch-itis. Only 33s on a HP Dana-44?!? That's crazy talk! :nuts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Hmm, I guess we got a little off course here. If he's running 33's go get a 4cyl cherokee HPD30. Get the newer shafts. Hope for the best. And if you want to really have fun get the vac disco one and weld the front gears. (The guy I know who broke his stock carrier did it on 33s. But he's one of those people :nuts: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I think I might still go with the D44 front, simply because I have no idea what mods I might want to do in the future, but I tend to drive the trails extremely hard and I don't want to get stuck because of my stupidity. Then, if I ever get the itch, I can go bigger without (hopefully) a complete drivtrain change. Sounds reasonable?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 There are 2 main routes to take when owning a 4x4. Do it all at the same time, or build it up as you go. Neither one is better than the other. Do the one that makes the most sense to you. Keep in mind that changing gears is expensive, like $400 or more per-axle expensive. That's why tracking down a stock 4.10 Dana 30 can make so much sense. If you think you'll see 37" tires in the future, but only 33s now, you can either bolt-in a Dana 30 to use in the interim, or build up a Dana 44 now. But you'll want much deeper gears for 37s over 33s, so do you regear the Dana 44 twice? I'm flat broke, so these decisions tend to be much simpler for me. :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I have 3 different D30s under my rigs, and I haven't hurt a R&P or carrier yet. (Running 34x9.50 TSLs, 35x14.00 Boggers, and Q78 Swampers which are 35.5"x11 wide) I haven't even hurt a 297x joint yet, and I have been wheeling my TJ since 2001. You can get a HP non disco D30 dirty cheap, and it will bolt right in. You will get the same money out of it if you ever decide to sell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The HPd30 built right can survive. Granted I just busted a chromo shaft, but I have not yet experienced the joy of a failed R&P, and I can't say that I personally know someone who has. Dirty Manche, I must ask you did you set your gears up right? and what brand of gears did you use? Some gear manufacturers are known for their weak gears, and thus no ones buys them.. except maybe you :nanner: BTW there should be a warranty for your gears. BTW to build a D44, cost just about the same as a D60... just keep that in mind. The only real difference is the initial price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 BTW to build a D44, cost just about the same as a D60... just keep that in mind. The only real difference is the initial price Kinda my feelings on it- when I upgrade, I will either go '60, or go portal. As far as the R&P, I have seen them fail on D60s and 14 bolts, usually with the guy saying "I just set it up, so I know it is OK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 They were Motive (Randy's Brand) and they were set up right. I find it somewhat odd that they survive for you guys; as I said mine wasn't the only failoure I've known. There's a chance it's because the terrain is different? Dunno. And I kinda doubt they'd warranty them? I never bothered to call because I figured that was kinda silly. Ya know, I didn't break them on the street. And buildup costs can really depend. A D60 front goes for upwards of 1g here. That's a hard initial hit. And if you're only going to run 37s or so, you don't need a boat anchor pumpkin. I'll admit that I'll probably wind up tossing my D44 at some point, but I can sell it for near to what I'm going to put in it. If not at a profit? Oh, and I found somebody to set up my next set of gears who will do it for beer. He's competent. Make friends with a mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drahcir495 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I am waitng to see some one on som Maxxis creepy crawlers, or treapadors. I have a set of 37x14.50r15 on 12'' rims. They are coming right off the Scrambler once the MJ is painted :nuts: JK Here is a picture of the tires on my jeep. I can take a close up shot of just the tire if needed-Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 so now it is just a matter of finding a D44. I know a guy who has 4 barns full of pure jeep parts...he will probably be a super nice guy and give me a deal if i trade him up some parts, will just need to find something worth while.... What would be worth trading to a guy who has every Jeep part possible??? Not to mention EVERY jeep model. LOL he might just be a nice guy though, seems like he is What's a good price for a D44 front?? 250? 300? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Complete? Varies. I payed $250 cnd. for mine out of a wrecker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 ur lucky, the auto wreckers here are shiesters, unless you get them friday afternoon when they are absolutally plasered lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Prices vary widely by region, and what is in the complete axle. If it is trul;y complete with good rotors, and calipers, and hubs expect to pay more then say one that needs all that replaced. Also ones that have 4.10's or higher bring more money. Keep in mind that not all d44's are equal as well. For example, the ford 3/4 ton d44's have different lenght shafts, and chromo's are expensive for this. also a FSJ d44 is not a true full width one. POINT IS DO YOUR RESEARCH BEFORE buying something you don't need or want. AS for a D60 being a boat anchor :smart: at least it is a strong one :nanner: and since I can run bigger tires on it.. it won't be such an anchor :banana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 What does FSJ mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 What does FSJ mean? Full Size Jeep. I.E. the gand wagoneer/Cherokee, and the j series trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinnaevd Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Is it uncommon to see a FSJ D44 in an MJ?? Anyone on here ever done one? What are y other front axle options other then a D30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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