Goatman

What's the reason for wanting to go to an open system? I know it has become a popular conversion, but I've never understood why. A closed system is more efficient. Most newer vehicles come with a closed system. Most, if not all modern pickups have a closed system. My Powerstroke has a closed system. Just wondering...

I saw in a previous post that you're thinking about cutting through the inner fender well to allow for a longer shock. As you're finding out with the crash damage, this is a unibody and all of the structure is important to the chassis rigidity. The strongest parts of the front section are the sides of the cowl, and the upper shock mount/spring seat area. If you're going to remove some of that area, have a good plan for how you'll add back in some structural strength. I would first consider lowering the shock mount position on the axle before seriously messing with the upper mount area. How much front suspension travel are you going for? What length shocks? Unless you're planning to run coilovers a shock longer than your spring movement is wasted. On our 4643 race XJ we ran 13" front shocks, no upper mount modification, but I designed a dual coil spring setup to be able to use a shock that long.

Don't remember exactly, but I think about two coil wraps. You can start with maybe 1.5 wraps and then trim more if you want it. Have to watch the bumpstop height, leave a bit of travel before it hits the stops.

Damn, I swore I was done with this thread. I have already way over made my point, let the reader decide. However, I feel obligated to respond the the issue about bumpsteer. Bumpsteer has nothing to do with the size or weight of a vehicle. Bumpsteer happens when the steering geometry and suspension geometry are not aligned so the vehicle automatically steers slightly when the suspension cycles, like when hitting a bump. When the steering and suspension are in alignment the steering does not move as the suspension cycles up and down. When they are not aligned, the steering moves as the suspension cycles and this change in steering direction is called bumpsteer. The typical bumpsteer cause on our straight axle Jeeps is when the track bar/panhard rod is at a different angle and/or length than the drag link. With the track bar, the axle moves slightly sideways as the suspension cycles, and if the drag link isn't aligned with the track bar then there will be a slight steering input change as the suspension cycles causing a slight movement of the tires and wheels. This slight change is called bumpsteer, there is a slight direction change as the suspension cycles...bumpsteer. A steering stabilizer does nothing to change this as it is a result of a hard relationship between steering and suspension. To eliminate bumpsteer, the drag link needs to be aligned with the track bar.

I guess it's just semantics. You have DW, you change something, now you don't. Based on your never ending argument, I'm betting most of us would rather have DW that we don't actually experience (no symptom) after spending $40 bucks than save the $40 and have DW that we do actually experience. I bet you don't take cold medicine, since it only removes the symptom (no more runny nose and cough) since it can't actually cure the cold. DW comes from an oscillation. If the oscillation is not allowed to start (even if it's just the dreaded shock) do you still have DW even though it never actually happened? Can you have DW and not know it, just because you don't experience any symptoms?

So, what if you get mud on your tires and they're out of balance. What if you hit a rock or curb and knock a wheel weight off. What if your tires are worn since they were balanced. Sure, I agree in a perfect world you don't need a stabilizer. Unfortunately too many situations aren't perfect. A stabilizer shock fights oscillation, just like a wheel shock fights normal spring frequency. A bad wheel shock might allow a tire to cup, and a bad steering stabilizer might allow an oscillation that can turn to DW. My race truck two weeks ago had DW on practice day. No looseness of any kind found in steering or suspension. Spent 40 bucks on a new stabilizer and we raced for 15 hours on Sat and Sun with no DW. I can give you many more examples. OK, I'll agree with you that something was causing the oscillation that led to the DW. If nothing is found, and we don't want to spend a bunch on new tires just to find out, I think most of us would be very happy to resolve the DW for a $40 shock. By no means am I saying we always replace the shock first, of course not. Many times we find an obvious problem. But when we don't, and the shock is questionable, we replace it, and sometimes that cures the DW.

Yep, they sure did, on F250's, Dodge 2500's, WJ's, and lot's more. Gotta fight that kick back when rock crawling...

Make sure the small plastic line from the throttle body to the MAP sensor (on the fire wall) isn't cracked or broken. If so, it will run very rough and rich.

So, you just don't believe me? My many experiences of fixing DW by replacing the stabilizer are lies or I'm just not credible? The factory engineers did put a stabilizer on your truck. Look guys, I'm not saying that a stabilizer fixes all DW. As we know, DW can come from so many things. I'm simply saying that when the cause is minor, a very slight tire imbalance, a very slight steering gear play, a very slightly worn bushing, etc., etc., that the steering stabilizer is designed to fight the resulting potential oscillation and prevent DW. Disagree all you want. Doesn't change anything. If everything is perfect, yes, no stabilizer is needed, but if something is slightly less than perfect, then the shock does it's job. I think you're taking my point for more than what I'm saying.

You're better off with a test light. Clip to a decent ground, then probe with the pointy end of the light. You can look for bad fusible links on the fender well. The soft insulation burns off and the wires burn in two on somewhat short sections of wire. If you find this you can twist the bare wires back together to make a connection and test the circuit. If the fusible link blew there is a problem somewhere.

We just cut the stock front coils to lower it, and used a block in the rear. We're going to relocate the front control arm mounts on the axle when we swap in the 2wd beam, right now it still has the 4x4 front axle, stripped out. We got lazy and limited the work we did to get it ready to race. We use offset upper ball joints to get some positive camber. We're running 245/45 17" tires, which are a very good size and look good. I like your idea of using XJ shackles, probably try that. I want to section the front axle to allow a lower ride height, and the UCA's will need to be lowered on the axle since they'll hit the motor mount bracket. We'll have to cut some off the front bumpstop tower to lower it more. We also run short Prothane coil inserts for bumpstops. Very fun to drive and handles amazingly well. We also have the Vanco big brake kit in front with Black Magic pads. And we run an 8.8 in the rear for disc brakes and 3.73 gears.

Maybe automotive engineers learned something? Anyway, always check the steering stabilizer if there is DW, as well as checking for anything at all that is loose.

Actually, no, it's there to fight DW in straight axle vehicles. You're rack and pinion steering Honda (and everything else) doesn't have one. All of your straight axle trucks do. Straight front axle vehicles are susceptible to DW as parts wear and so they come from the factory with a stabilizer shock. I own an auto repair shop and off road shop, and we fix many DW problems with a new shock, and we always use a stock replacement. Sure, also many times it's something loose in the front end, but many times the new shock fixes it.

We fix quite a few DW problems with a new stock stabilizer shock. Simple and inexpensive, and a good place to start unless you know for certain that the current one is good. The shock is there for only one purpose, to fight DW as parts get slight wear, or tires get slightly out of balance, etc. A few weeks ago we raced our new MJ race truck. Fri at practice we got some DW, a weird feeling at speed on a track. We put a new shock on it and raced all day Sat and Sun with no DW. No guarantee, but a good place to start.

Keep in mind that the lower priced more "budget" lift kits are lower priced for a reason. You get what you pay for. Spring rates, shock rates, bushing material all make a difference in how nice the truck will be to drive. Also, you don't have to do any fender trimming until you go 35's with a small lift or 37's with a big lift, other than some slight trimming on the lower insides of the wheel wells where you don't even see it. These young guys seem to cut fenders before they do much of anything else.