JACKED88

Ok, so whats right? Am i correct in thinking the ball joints are supposed to be vertically perpendicular or not? Like that straight vertical line in the "caster" pic. I though caster was the position of your axle in relation the the frame. In other words if the two are square with each other. Hence the adjustments made by adding or subtracting shims from the factory lower control arm adjusters. If thats not right, what does those adjusters adjust?

I was very particular about my control arm measurements prior to installing so even without addition measurements we're fairly certain my caster is pretty close. We'll make whatever fine adjustments are needed when we do the alignment. Right now its the camber I have an obvious problem with. So is that a yes or a no that the ball joints should be vertically in line with each other ("0" degrees) for correct camber? (or at least within a degree or so +/- either way. Just for reference I'm gonna use a clock with 12:00 and 6:00 being "O" degrees. Right now looking at tha passenger side and saying the lower ball joint is in a fixed 6:00 position, the upper ball joint is closer to being at about 11:00 . It definitely needs to be rotated if their supposed to be vertically in line with each other. I would prefer to rotate the top of the axle forward to put the upper joint in the 12:00 position rather than rotate the bottom towards the rear. Reason being by rotating the bottom towards tha rear would pull my wheel further back and off center in relation to the fender well. Its actually pretty close to center now but if anything it could use going forward a little more. If done as described above leaving the lower ball joints where they are and again saying their in a fixed 6:00 position, the upper ball joint would need to rotate from an 11:00 position to the 12:00 position. That would require adjusting the upper control arms outward at least an inch or more therefore making the upper and lower arms very close to being the same length. Two questions ..... are the upper and lower ball joints supposed to be vertically perpendicular with each other for correct camber? Does it sound right that I should have to adjust my upper and lower control arms to near the same length to achieve the correct camber?

OK, we got everything installed and off tha lift. :clapping: I've got the lower control arms set at 17 1/8" and the uppers at 15 5/8. According to tha chart that should be to pretty close to being set in between a 6 & 7 inch lift. (I have 6.5" coils) . (from chart) 6" 16.97" 15.44" 7" 17.36" 15.74" Problem is I have a camber issue. As it is my dif is sitting almost level and my upper ball joints are leaning towards the rear. Looks like the upper arms either need to go out at least another inch or the lowers need to come in the same. The tires in relation to being centered in the fender well is pretty close but could use going forward a little more. Arent the ball joints supposed to be vertically in line with "O" degrees of angle? If so, the axle needs to rotate at least an inch. By doing so that would also increase my dif angle closer to being right. I don't have a problem adjusting the upper arms out that far but thats gonna put the uppers and lowers set at almost the same length. Somehow that just doesnt seem right but if thats what its gonna take to correct the camber issue then thats what I'll have to do. I'd appreciate yalls input on weather this sounds right to yall or if I have something wrong creating this much of a camber issue. No, we havent done an alignment yet because we can obviously see there's a camber problem. We felt we needed to get most of that adjusted out before we even try to do an alignment on it. In a nut shell .... does it sound right that my upper and lower control arms are likely gonna end up being set at nearly the same length? Oh and as for articulation, forget about it. Even though I ground off some of the shock mount to help make the axle drop lower for spring installation, the lower control arm still hits tha mount and stops any further flexing of the axle. I'm pretty disappointed with these lower arms. R/C needs to go back to tha drawing board and correct this problem. We shouldnt have to cut or grind off parts of our trucks to make their sh-t fit half @$$ right. In time the top side of the lower arm and the bottom side of the shock mount are gonna beat tha crap out of each other. Eventually something is gonna give. When it does you can bet your @$$ R/C is gonna hear about it. In fact, I'm gonna call um tomorrow and let um know there's a problem with their lower arms and what I think about their product. BTW, don't you jeepcoMJ and mnkyboy have the same problem with the lower arm contacting the shock mount and therefore restricting articulation?

You guys do great work and we appreciate it very much. But, I've read this entire post but still don't know what rear drive shaft I'll need for my 88 MJ once I complete its 4x4 conversion. This "was" my truck; 1988 SWB MJ Eliminator 4.0 AW4 2x4. This is what was converted/installed by the previous owner; 1989 XJ Limited D30 and D35 axles. Yes, for whatever reason he removed the axle that was already in it. :hmm: While he was at it he did a SOA rear lift and a pathetic attempt to install a front lift. I've since bought all tha correct 6.5" front lift parts and am installing them virtually as we speak. Now ....... I have another 1989 XJ Limited that I'm gonna pull the AW4 and 242 t/c out of and install them in my truck. What rear drive shaft length will I need? (keeping in mind the SOA 6+ inch lift) In addition, later I'll be installing a Chry 8.25 rear axle and will need to know what shaft length I'll need for it also. While we're at it, is there gonna be a u-joint issue going from a D35 to a 8.25? One more ...... is the 89 XJ's 242 front shaft gonna work? (again keeping in mind tha 6+ inch lift)

Exactly!!! Thats what I was telling my son tha whole time we were fighting to install tha damn things. (this sh-t aint right) I even called R/C, told um my problem and ask if they sent me tha wrong arms. They said I have tha correct arms. I almost decided to take a grinder to tha shock mount and grind out a notch for added rotation clearance. The only reason I didnt was because I wanted to call R/C and make sure I had the right arms first. Now that I know they're tha right arms, I'm grinding tha notches. Note tha bend in the end of these; http://www.ironman4x4fab.com/Jeep_XJ_Co ... J_LCA.html That little bend would make all tha difference in tha world upon installation compared to these straight R/C's. Thats how R/C aughta be making theirs too. Instead all they do is weld on the bushing at the axle end offset to the arm. Problem is its not enough. Hence the needed addition of the bend shown above.

Did both your horn and blinker problem start at tha same time? Check your grounds under tha dash. That could be your blinker prob as well.

You should never have to use a drop pitman arm. DPAs should ONLY be used if you're lowering the trackbar mount on the frame, or raising it on the axle, otherwise it will CAUSE bumpsteer. The whole belief that you need a drop pitman arm with a lift has been perpetuated from the days of leaf sprung vehicles without trackbars. On these vehicles you wanted to keep the angle of the draglink as flat as possible to minimize bumpsteer. On vehicles with a trackbar (like your MJ), you want to keep the draglink as parallel to the trackbar as possible to minimize bumpsteer. With a DPA, your making it worse. A dropped pitman arm will also increase the amount of torque/axial loading on the shaft your steering box experiences. If you've ever talked to anyone who's running larger tires and had a frame failure to the steering box mounting area, they'll be the first to tell you that you don't want to do anything to put more stress on the steering box... Oops, my bad. Forgot to tell you tha R/C trac bar I got comes with a lowering bracket and that was why they said a DPA was required. We've already removed tha stock bracket and installed tha new drop bracket. We've also installed tha DPA. I'll be heading up to tha shop in a couple of hours (after its closed for tha day) to finish the install. Hopefully we'll git everything bolted up and my truck off tha lift. Its pretty much do or die tonight because my sons boss is gonna be pissed if its still there tomorrow. (wonder what he's gonna say when we bring it back in to do tha 2x4 to 4x4 trans swap? :rant: LOL!!!

:???: Because R/C SOLD me on the idea it was required when using their lift components. And that it would take some of the angle out if the center link. Is it true that a dropped arm creates excessive stress on the gear box? (keeping in mind this truck is mostly street driven) I could understand the stress if I were rock crawling or going extreme off roading but I don't do either. With that said, is using it gonna hurt me or is it just something I spent money on thats not needed? Called R/C today. I didnt mention it before but one of the lower arms thay sent me has galled threads in/on it. We had to put one end of it in a vise and use a 3 foot cheater bar just to screw it out to 16.5" Their sending me a replacement over night so it should be here tomorrow. Needless to say my sons boss isnt real happy about one of his lifts being tied up with my truck on it so we're gonna have to go ahead and install that bad arm for now. I'll replace it this weekend. My son worked on it a little today and claims he has 3 out of tha 4 arms bolted up. Says he needs to rotate the axle about 1/4" more to git tha lower bolt in. Gonna git a spring compressor and do like yall suggested. Arms first, springs last. One way on another we gotta git it off that lift tonight. (even if we have to move it on floor jax) Thanks for yalls suggestions and help. I'll let ya know how it turns out. (and if my son still has a job) :fs1:

WTF??? I finally got a chance to install my 6.5" front lift parts. Though everything would go together as it should but ...... no frickin way. This is what I'm installing. Rough Country's 6.5" springs, adj upper and lower control arms, adj trac bar and a drop pitman arm. Problem ..... According to R/C I was supposed to set the upper arms at 15 1/2" and the lowers at 16 1/2". Well, that just doesnt work. Looks to me like the axle needs to move forward at least a couple of more inches to be centered in the fender well much less have tha correct caster. As it is, I can't git both the upper and lower to bolt up. If I bolt up the lowers, I can't rotate the axle enough to bolt the uppers. Same problem if I bolt up the uppers, I can't git the lowers to bolt up. I've been fighting this thing all day. Tried numerous ways to get everything to line/bolt up but each time I tried to do it a different way something else would be way out of line and unable to be bolted up. I'm pretty sure I've narrowed my problem down to not having the arms adjusted long enough. I need to know what the upper and lower arms should be set at for a 6.5" lift??? Thanks in advance. Robert

Why don't you just git these and modify um as needed to fit. :thumbsup: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-Jeep ... 35a8440596

No, that won't take the slop out of it. He reported that the inside opening dimension is 2-3/16". That's more than 2-1/8" almost 2-1/4", when it should be approximately 2-1/32" . The ONLY way that could happen is if they used thinner wall tubing to make up the receiver. I originally guessed maybe 3/16" wall instead of 1/4", but when you run the numbers, it seems like they would have had to use 1/8" wall tubing, and that's just not right. The lighting isn't good in those photos, but if you look closely and compare against the photo of the Grand Cherokee hitch, you can see that the wall on the MJ bumper receiver tube looks pretty thin. There's a photo where you can see it up against the ruler, and it does look like 1/8" tubing -- with a reinforcing collar around it. But my XJ factory hitches are 1/4" tubing with a 1/4" collar around it, so they measure a full 1/2" on each side of the opening. :doh: My bad. Your right. I looked at his tape measure and measurements but had forgottin about tha 2 3/16" measurement and seeing what looks to be 3/16 material. So no, additional length won't fix his problem. Gonna take a smaller hole to fix what he's got. :teehee: (now that there was funny) :rotf: BTW, I still stand by tha further you stick something of like size into a hole, the less wobble you'll have in what remains sticking out. :brows: Its one of those "laws of leverage" things. :thumbsup:

Hey, how long is the receiver itself? Most receivers are a minimum of 6 inches long. If that one is say 4 inches long with tha draw bar sticking out tha back of it, its gonna have more slop than one thats as long as your bar. There's a couple of ways to fix yalls problem but lets see what JCR says first. EDIT ..... I went back to JCR's website and looked at that last photo of a Comanche rear bumper. Tha one that shows tha back side of it. No doubt tha receiver it too short. No wonder tha bar is floppin all around. Assuming there enough room, git you a 3"-4" long pc of receiver materal and extend the receiver by welding that pc to back end of it. I can almost guarantee that'll take out most of your slop. JCR aught know better.

They shoulda used 1/4" tubing. If they did they must be using seconds that didnt meet wall thickness standards. I've got 4 vehicles with receiver hitches on um. These are the inside measurements I came up with using dial calipers on all 4. 2.050, 2.050, 2.055, 2.065 (that 2.065 was on that cheap little under bumper bolt on receiver I currently have on my truck) :shake: I also measured 3 draw bars. 2.010, 2.020, 2.025 All of which will interchange with each other without excessive slop. Obviously some will be looser than others but nothing like tha one on that JCR bumper. Oh and I did roughly measure tha wall thickness of the receivers. All were made with 1/4" material.

Sorry Pete but I gotta disagree with ya on this one. I'm with EAGLE. Somebody at JCR obviously screwed up and grabbed tha wrong receiver material. Thats one of tha nicest/cleanest looking bumpers I've seen for our trucks. With that said, I don't buy into the idea that their receivers arent intended to be used for towing. If that were tha case, why would they bother adding recovery brackets for "D" rings? As you know, not everybody uses their Jeeps for hard core off roading where they end up in recovery situations. And .... not everybody has a winch to stick in their receivers for self recovery. Some people (like me. :chillin:) just like tha beefy look of a heavy duty bumper. In fact, later down tha raod, I may look into one of those for my truck. (assuming they correct the receiver issue) Send it back. If I were you and or before I was done with um, they'd be replacing tha bumper they screwed up on and sending me a front bumper as well. (lets see; another $150 or so to have a second one painted ($300 total in paint) plus another $75+ to have it installed again. ($150 total) $450 bucks would more than cover one of their Stage 4 or even winch front bumpers. :thumbsup: Let us know how ya do.

No problem. We're good. :thumbsup:

I know there was no Up-Country package for an MJ. This thread started out with nitroxsteve finding tha plate he bought for his MJ on an XJ. Considering XJ's are much easier to find in tha bone yards, I was both asking and posting what all was available on XJ packages that will work on MJ's. Sorry about tha confusion. :hmm:

I'm pretty sure tha plastic skid plate came standard. Its tha metal plates front, center and rear that were optional. Like a few of you, although my XJ has all tha plates, it doesnt have tha hooks. :( Gonna have to keep an eye out for some next time I'm at tha j/y. Meanwhile I'm gonna pull tha front and t/c plate off the XJ and prep um to go on my MJ. (won't git put on till my suspension and 4x4 tranny are installed. Anybody need a XJ fuel tank plate? P/M me an offer. You pay shipping.

So OEM Skid plates = off road package huh. This 89 Limited XJ I bought has a full skid plate package. (front, t/c and gas tank) I assume that means it'll also have a limited slip rear axle. Were there any other options that came with an off road package? I read this in the article that follows. "In 1986, the 2.5 liter engine gained fuel injection, bumping power to 117 horsepower and easing starting and general operation, with no gas mileage penalty. A new off-road package with bigger tires, skid plates, a raised suspension, and a 4:10 gear ratio was also added. http://www.allpar.com/trucks/jeep/cherokee.html My question is; were tha 4.10 gears only installed in the 2.5 models or across tha board in all off road packages? I also found this article but it has no mention of 4.10 gears. In addition to comfort options, the Jeep Off-Road or Up-Country package provides the Cherokee with additional capabilities. This package consists of skidplates for front suspension, transfer case, and fuel tank, revised front and rear springs with 1-inch higher ride height, two front and one left rear tow hooks, 15x7in. tyres with P225/75R15 radial tires, and gas-pressurized shock absorbers. And then there's this; Axle Gear Ratios Jeep XJs came in several standard gearing ratios: * 3.07:1, manual transmission, I6 engine. * 3.54:1, automatic transmission, I6 engine with Dana 44 rear differential. * 3.54:1, manual transmission, I4 diesel engine with Dana 35 rear differential. * 3.55:1, automatic transmission, I6, V6 engines; manual transmission, I4 engine. * 3.73:1, automatic transmission, I6, Tow Package, UpCountry Package. * 4.10:1, manual transmission, V6; automatic transmission, I4 engine. * 4.56:1, automatic transmission, I4, offroad or tow package. Note that none of the above mention limited slips. Seems to me the only way to know for sure what you have is to crawl under your vehicle and look or decode your VIN. ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Stalled how? Just quit like you turned off tha key or sputtered a little and then quit? When it stalled and presumably wouldnt start again you should have done your spark and fuel test again. I'm thinkin its a fuel problem. As in your fuel pump is going out. I had the same thing happening to my E250 van. Granted it has not one, not two but three fuel pumps, it was the high pressure pump feeding the injectors that was causing the problem. don't worry, your Jeep only has one pump. A fuel pump thats on its way out can spit and sputter making your motor run one time but not tha next. Finally it'll quit all togather. If its your fuel pump, the addition of cleaners in tha fuel will often make an already weak pump quit working. Here's some good info on testing the 4.0 system. http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Fue ... ostics.htm Hope it helps.

Damn!!! Your right. To be honest, I didnt realize tha difference till now that you've pointed it out. Apparently neither did tha guy at R/C. Ironmans upgraded Johnny Joint arms are basically tha same as R/C's X-Flex arms. Tha price match I got was on Ironmans standard arms. Not their upgraded Johnny Joints.I honestly didnt know till now I wasnt comparing apples to apples as far as arms go. Oh well. I'm sure R/C still made a few bucks selling me the arms at that price. If not tha ole boy who sold um to me probably won't have a job much longer although he claimed he'd been there for 8 years. In that time I'm sure he knows how much he can sell parts for and still turn a buck for R/C.

First of all keep in mind that a motor has to have three things to run. Air, Fuel and Spark. Take away any one of those and it won't run. Has it been sitting for a long time? If so, how long? Just because its shooting fuel doesnt mean its under enough pressure to fire the injectors. Try puttin a little gas directly into the throttle body and see if it acts like it wants to run. It'll run rough only for a couple of seconds but at least then you'll know if you have a fuel delivery problem. It's easy enough to check for ignition spark too. Pull off one plug wires, stick a screw driver into the end of tha wire and hold tha screw driver close (1/4") to a good ground on tha motor. Meanwhile have somebody try to start tha motor. You should be able to see and hear tha spark jump from the screw driver to your ground. I assume you know not to hold or be touching the metal part of tha screw driver when you do this. Some people man up and just hold the end of plug wire with their fingers close to a ground. I personally don't like taking tha chance of getting shocked so I use tha screw driver method. Tha lack of Air usually isnt tha problem although it couldnt hurt to check filter and tha air box for obstructions. Hope this helps and Good luck with your new toy. Post some pix when ya git a chance.

He still does work for RC, and if they could do that for you, I bet he could also. Rob L. I'm gonna have too contact him,if he can match those prices i will go that route. Let us know what kind of prices you get. It may help others on future purchases. That and now I'm curious to know if I got as good a deal as I think I did. :dunno:

Told um I could git um for less from Ironman but preferred not to have to mix parts manufacturers so they matched Ironmans price for me. They discounted everything else too. Here's tha break down on everything I bought. Item # Description Qty Ordered Unit Price 9275 JEEP XJ 6.5" COILS 1 (comes in pairs) $95.00 ---------------- 1079 XJ 4-6"TRK ROD KIT 1 $100.00 ----------------- 6605 PITMAN ARM 1 $37.00 ----------------- 1198 TJ/XJ FR UPR ADJ 1 $125.00 ------------------ 1190 ADJ LWRS QTY-2 1 $125.00 ------------------ Subtotal: $482.00 Payment Type: CC Sales Tax: $0.00 Shipping Charge: $46.95 Invoice Total $528.95 I was gonna buy tha springs from R/C and everything else from Ironman but R/C gave me such a good deal I couldnt pass it up. If all I was wanting was upper and lower arms, I would have bought Ironmans. http://www.ironman4x4fab.com/XJ_Inventory.html Although I would have liked to have supported our fellow member at HellCreek, I don't think he could have beat or even matched tha prices I got. $110 bucks off tha arms alone. Another $35 off tha springs and another $30 off tha track bar. On top of that under $50 bucks to ship everything. I think I got a hell of a deal.

WOW!!! That was quick. My parts are here. :banana: Got home around 7-ish last night to find 3 boxes sittin on tha front porch. Everything looks great. Now if I can figure out a way to sh-t tha money for some new spring isolators and bump stops I'd be good to go. Unfortunately I've already gottin busted by tha wife for ordering over $500 bucks worth of parts so it might be a week or so before I can afford the isolators and stops. :( Oh well, that may turn out to be perfect timing. My son told me we could do the install at the auto dealership where he works but not till weekend after next. I'm thinkin it'll be well worth tha wait to have a lift to do it on instead of having to crawl around under it up on jack stands in tha driveway. More later. Robert

Thanks for the info/advice. The track bar I'm getting comes with a drop bracket and says that a drop pitman arm is required. Here's tha trackbar. See Notes; • Requires drop pitman arm. http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_xtras_1079.html Thanks. I'll be sure to check it. I'm assuming that this means it's the appropriate trackbar bracket. :dunno: I don't have an answer for that other than I'm assuming R/C knows what their doing :hmm: and is selling me a quality part thats appropriate for the application. http://www.roughcountry.com/jeep_xtras_1079.html