Another question concerning the front suspension

[shortee1fourtee]

Can anyone tell what's  causing my frontend to bounce , wobble, and track side to side. Both front tired are wearing badly to the outside edge on both tires. I know it was falling apart. I just replaced the front left tire rod and also the drag link ball joint end ( the side the hooks to the pitman arm). I'm assuming it has something to do with the camber adjustments maybe??? But this suspension setup is new to me. Can anything be adjusted???? I slowly replacing parts that need replacing. I just have a budget i have to work with over time. Thanks in advance for any feedback. 

[thecodemonk]

I assume you've done an alignment?

[Smokeyyank]

Is your rig lifted or stock?  From what you're describing sounds like death wobble and there's no real " do X and it will fix it" solution but there's a basic checklist to eliminate the parts cannon needing to fire. Trackbar is what stabilizes the axles from lateral movement. Have you replaced that?

[shortee1fourtee]

no i haven't done an alignment yet because it wouldn't do any good until I replace whatever is wore out or loose .  it doesnt do it constantly, it may ride smooth for a couple miles,then the left side start bouncing,the the right, then both. And not necessarily in that order. Also, no lift , its all stock.

[shortee1fourtee]

Also yes, i did replace the track recently . 

 

[Pete M]

double check that the track bar bracket is secure and that the frame between that bracket and the steering gearbox isn't cracked. 

[Smokeyyank]

If you can, get under it and have some one turn the steering wheel back and forth to check for any play in components. Also check ball joints lifting it off the ground and grabbing the wheel to check for play. 

[gogmorgo]

We can spitball at stuff all we want but you’re the only one there who can get under the front end and check for play in any of the components. Anything that could affect what direction your truck is tracking, including the rear suspension, could be at fault here.

My process would be to lift the front wheels off the ground and check for play in them. Hand each on top and bottom and pushing in and out will find play in ball joints, on the front and back of tire will find steering linkage, play in every direction would be a bad bearing or loose wheel. You can also get a helper to steer back and forth just enough to move the front tires in each direction while you’re checking every pivot point in the steering and track bar to find play. Also look for excessive play in control arm and leaf spring bushings, and for witness marks for evidence brackets are moving around. Make sure the bolt at the axle end of the track bar is properly tight, and not moving around in its hole either.
If you can’t find anything, just go get the alignment done. Whoever does it might find what you missed. But also it could be your issue on its own. Even but excessive wear on the outside of the tires is most likely due to incorrect toe angles, which would also cause the vehicle to wander around and can possibly also cause wobble as the tires are fighting each other to steer you one direction or the other. Unless you were careful to maintain your alignment the way it was before it’s very likely changing tie rods contributed to a toe issue… assuming the toe was correct to begin with. It’s super easy to bend a tie rod which will affect toe angle.
If your wear is cupping, i.e. the tread blocks aren’t wearing off evenly from one to the next, it’s an indicator of ball joint issues. 
Incorrect camber can in theory cause the symptoms you’re experiencing, but it’s very unlikely with a solid axle that your wheels are leaning outwards to cause wear on the outer edge of the tire. The weight of the truck on the axle would cause the wheels to tilt inwards if there was play. You would have to somehow bend the outer ends of the axle down or push up really hard in the middle, not impossible but not likely. 

Blown shocks can also lead to strange behaviours but won’t cause edge wear on a tire.

Funky tire wear can also cause balance issues which will cause wobble. 

[shortee1fourtee]

Well, so far. I had someone turn the wheel while I was under the truck and i inspected everything  I possibly could. I didn't see anything loose, or any cracks in the frame. So I guess next I need to jack it up, but its definitely wearing the outside edge of the tires. You can see the angle of the tires when standing back looking at the front of the truck. I will jack it up and see what I find and report back here when done

[Pete M]

are the shocks good?  are the lower control arms original?

[Andy in Pa]

Please do a "shadetree" alignment on the front end.  Just having the truck that far out of alignment could create that wobble.  Find 3 and 9 oclock on the tires and measure the distance from inside of tire to inside of tire as accurately as you can.  Loosen and adjust the draglink adjustment until those numbers are close.  If that doesn't make sense, dig up a few videos on youtube and follow along with them.  Lots of good info out there.

[gogmorgo]

15 hours ago, shortee1fourtee said:

Well, so far. I had someone turn the wheel while I was under the truck and i inspected everything  I possibly could. I didn't see anything loose, or any cracks in the frame. So I guess next I need to jack it up, but its definitely wearing the outside edge of the tires. You can see the angle of the tires when standing back looking at the front of the truck. I will jack it up and see what I find and report back here when done

If you have uneven tire pressure the axle would end up leaning to one side, but that doesn't wear out the outer edges of both tires. Bad toe angle does.

Following from Andy's post, what we do to quickly measure in the shop is lift the tires just high enough off the ground to be able to spin them freely, then spray a line of paint around the tire (hold the can in place and spin the wheel). Then take a screwdriver or other sharpish object and hold it against the tire so it won't move, and rotate the tire to scrape a line in the all the way around it. If the line doesn't meet up with the start point, start over. This will give you a good datum to measure from. Tires aren't super accurate in terms of consistent geometry, so the line in the paint is much better than trying to go off a tread block or the sidewall. With the steering wheel in the straight ahead position, you'll want a slight amount of toe in. Measure the distance between the two lines you just scribed on the tires at both the 9 and 3 o'clock position, two measurements, one at the front of the tires and one at the back. Adjust the tie rod so the front edges of the tires are roughly 1/8" closer together than the back edges. This won't be perfect, but it will be more than good enough to get you to a point where the truck shouldn't be darting all over the place. It will definitely be enough to get you to an alignment shop.

Once you've got the toe dialled in a bit better, you can rotate the tires to the rear of the vehicle if they're not too far gone, and hope they even out some.

[shortee1fourtee]

Ive done shadetree alignments many times before and everything went well. But something just isn't doing right with this truck. And I'm certain it is an error on my part. I mean it has minor issues to begin with. But after driving it for a month or two I noticed it was getting worse and quickly .  that's when i got underneath the truck and had someone turn the wheel and I then found the track bar was bad, i replaced it, and then was able to see the drag link end was bad as well, i replaced it. Same with the tire rod end on left side. Its not darting all over nearly like it was. Now its more or less bouncing like crazy, and still pulls pretty hard to the right. But this is the part that starts to confuse me. Sometimes i can hit a bump in the road and the bouncing seems to shift more to the left side than the right .  at first i thought maybe tires, or maybe a bent rim. But I've changed tires, and rotated them around. I'm gonna try to do the alignment again. But just to be sure I'm not doing something wrong, the drag link adjustment is what changes the toe, correct?

[Pete M]

if you bounce down on the corner of the truck with your hands, does the truck immediately stop once you stop?  or does it bounce a bit more? 

 

are the control arms original?

[shortee1fourtee]

It stops, so its not my shocks, correct?

[shortee1fourtee]

And as far as i know, the controls arms are the original. 

[Pete M]

maybe.  if it keeps bouncing, they are bad for sure.  but if it stops, they could still be weak.

 

change out those arms.  especially the lowers.   

[shortee1fourtee]

OK problem solved .... Somewhat at the least. Seems they sold me the wrong tire rod end......or something isnt right. The adjuster for the toe instead of doing like should, instead when turned either direction both tires turn in the same direction. No wonder i couldn't get it to half @$$ align so i could drive it to the alignment shop. So i just broke tired rod loose from time, used a tape measure and did it manually and seems to have done the trick. Thanks everyone for all the help and for sharing your knowledge with me. 

 

[gogmorgo]

There should be two adjusters in the system, one for the drag link and the other for the tie rod. The tie rod gets your toe angles correct, the drag link straightens out the steering wheel.