Ball Joint Gap

[howeitsdone]

I only found 1 other post on this when I searched, so if I missed another post feel free to link it.

 

The UBJ on the driver's side won't seat into the knuckle properly. The passenger side (pictured) is just fine. I used Mevotech 3134 & 3137. This is the only one out of all 4 giving me an issue. I no longer have the original ball joints to compare thickness, but I can tell you they were aftermarket with fittings. Wondering if this means I bent the knuckle when trying to remove the frozen hub?

 

I don't want to "just buy Spicer" but I'd rather figure out the possible causes to then come up with a solution.

 

 

 

 

[Big Dan]

Probably deformed the hole, somewhat. Jeepdriver had to use a reamer, in his build thread, to correct a similar issue.

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[AZJeff]

I hate to say this, but the most likely cause is the “C” shaped yoke on the end of the axle is splayed.   This happens when someone in the past did not use the proper adapters to remove/install a ball joint.

 

you can confirm this by measuring from the outside of the yoke on each side to see if they are equal (within 1/16”)

[howeitsdone]

My initial thought was to use a reamer, but I wanted t make sure I'm not ruining the knuckle that way. I also was curious if there may be another reason, but after measuring it seems to be a bit oblong. I also don't know what the factory size is either. I can measure against the other side but I'll need to take it all apart to do so.

 

 

[Jeep Driver]

I'm going to suggest to you this, it's just my educated guess-

 

At some point the taper changed. There was an early taper and a later taper, either the length or diameter changed. 

 

No one is making the early taper, the only replacement BJs have the later taper. 

 

This is why your hole is not true, it was damaged by a later taper BJ

 

 

 

I went through several TBs that would not tighten up a the frame mount, no matter what I did, a month later I could here it popping. 

 

I went and got a later mount of a '98 and with a new TB the problem was solved.........IMO this was due to a matching taper. 

I've since gone to JKS TB and the problem is moot now. 

 

But I suspect this is the same with BJs. 

 

You are not the only one, more common than you might think. 

 

If you go the reamer route, it doesn't take much to ruin a knuckle..........slow and light turnings. 

[howeitsdone]

That's what I feared.

 

I suppose my options are either spend $80 on a reamer or about double that on a JY axle with 3.55 gears to upgrade my 3.07s. But that means I'll also have to upgrade the rear axle with it.

[AZJeff]

2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

I'm going to suggest to you this, it's just my educated guess-

 

At some point the taper changed. There was an early taper and a later taper, either the length or diameter changed. 

 

No one is making the early taper, the only replacement BJs have the later taper. 

 

 

AND THIS is why we have Comanche Club.  I had old XJ's and newer ones before I got my MJ, and I had NO IDEA that they changed the ball joint taper at one time.    What's up with that, BTW?

 

I still don't think it's a bad idea to check the yoke on the axle, just in case.  My axle was trashed by some former owner using other than the appropriate tools, and one side of the "C" for the yoke was splayed a good 7mm.  There was no easy way to fix that.  Thus, I wound up with a low pinion from axle from a 2000XJ as a replacement.

[jeepmjga]

Worst comes to worst you can just snag a set of matching knuckles from a junkyard.  If you have time to wait I can see whats left of the 95 XJ at the pull a part by me but I prob can't get over there til next week.  Not sure if those knuckles will work but there are also a ton of ZJ's at the yard by me as well.  A little easier than grabbing the whole axle.  

[howeitsdone]

31 minutes ago, AZJeff said:

I still don't think it's a bad idea to check the yoke on the axle, just in case.

 

Not dismissing it, but what exactly would this affect other than the angle the UBJ sits? The LBJ shaft is moveable so I can move it around to try and get the knuckle mounted, but it just won't go up any further.

 

16 minutes ago, jeepmjga said:

Worst comes to worst you can just snag a set of matching knuckles from a junkyard.  If you have time to wait I can see whats left of the 95 XJ at the pull a part by me but I prob can't get over there til next week.  Not sure if those knuckles will work but there are also a ton of ZJ's at the yard by me as well.  A little easier than grabbing the whole axle.  

 

I was thinking about doing this, but I've already purchased all the brake parts and hubs for the pre-90/91 knuckles. I can return the hubs, but the other parts are past the window. I think I also need to purchase the calipers that match too, right?

[howeitsdone]

Went ahead and purchased the reamer. I'll keep this thread updated on results. Should be here Friday.

 

I also purchased the Spicer 40916 just in case. If it works, I can easily return the reamer, but if it doesn't then I can just return the ball joint back to Amazon. Either way I figured I'd experiment. After thinking about it, it's awfully difficult to bend cast metal like that without a great amount of heat.

[AZJeff]

3 hours ago, PocketsEmptied said:

 

Not dismissing it, but what exactly would this affect other than the angle the UBJ sits? The LBJ shaft is moveable so I can move it around to try and get the knuckle mounted, but it just won't go up any further.

 

Yes,there is some axial play in the ball stud, but I think the amount that is considered acceptable is probably MUCH smaller than what I see in your photo.

 

The blue seal on the new ball joint MUST be in contact with the knuckle to function correctly.  If you cannot ream the tapered hole in the knuckle to get the ball stud seated far enough to get the blue seal in contact, you risk dirt and contamination getting into the ball joint over time.

[Big Dan]

I'm going to suggest to you this, it's just my educated guess-
 
At some point the taper changed. There was an early taper and a later taper, either the length or diameter changed. 
 
No one is making the early taper, the only replacement BJs have the later taper. 
 
This is why your hole is not true, it was damaged by a later taper BJ
 
 
 
I went through several TBs that would not tighten up a the frame mount, no matter what I did, a month later I could here it popping. 
 
I went and got a later mount of a '98 and with a new TB the problem was solved.........IMO this was due to a matching taper. 
I've since gone to JKS TB and the problem is moot now. 
 
But I suspect this is the same with BJs. 
 
You are not the only one, more common than you might think. 
 
If you go the reamer route, it doesn't take much to ruin a knuckle..........slow and light turnings. 

So are the pre 90 knuckles screwed as far as getting ball joints?

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[Jeep Driver]

6 hours ago, Big Dan said:

So are the pre 90 knuckles screwed as far as getting ball joints?

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I don't know the answer to that. 

 

I can tell you that my holes in the knuckles were not round.

 

The 7 degree by 1" taper is supposed to be what current Jeep BJ taper is.

When I put the reamer up to the new BJ it was a match. 

 

But not the hole in the knuckle. 

 

You can see here the reamer was taking material from the bottom of the taper but not the top. 

 

[howeitsdone]

I found it strange that Dana offers 2 different BJs for both upper and lower on the MJ D30. It states in the description that one is specific to reverse rotation. How that makes a difference? I don't know. The LP D30 wasn't even offered on the MJ IIRC.

 

I searched for a long time last night to find the individual part numbers that came in the 83500202AB kit but ended up empty-handed. Even the parts catalog just list the kit instead of each one.

 

After looking at the pictures, it appears that the 40112 (03820872 or 5950542) may be too short of a stub. Also looks more like a lower to me. And 40916 (53000707) looks pretty close to what the new one looks like, but a slightly shorter/smaller tapered shaft. So I went ahead and ordered the 40916 to experiment.

 

Now, Spicer states that these parts fit all 3 versions of the knuckles. Which I thought was strange assuming they changed the taper. And if the taper changed in the knuckle but not in the joint, then to me that is much more prone to DW of some sort.

 

I really don't want the answer to be "buy Spicer", but I guess we will wait and see.

 

[howeitsdone]

New ball joint and reamer came in today. Put the Spicer joint up to the knuckle and while the gap wasn't as bad, it still remains. No bueno.

 

So I took the reamer to the knuckle and it took some material from the bottom, but, like mentioned, would never take any off the top. So my problem still exists. I spent about an hour trying to ream out the hole with no success.

 

@Jeep Driver how did you end up fixing it?

 

[Jeep Driver]

5 minutes ago, PocketsEmptied said:

I spent about an hour trying to ream out the hole with no success.

Ream how? with what?

[howeitsdone]

Used the reamer you linked in your thread from RC. Sprayed it with oil and tried to ream the upper hole in the knuckle like you said. I got about the same result as you posted in this thread.

[Jeep Driver]

1 minute ago, PocketsEmptied said:

Used the reamer you linked in your thread from RC. Sprayed it with oil and tried to ream the upper hole in the knuckle like you said. I got about the same result as you posted in this thread.

Did you use a drill?

[howeitsdone]

Yes I did. A handheld one. I have access to a drill press if needed.

[Jeep Driver]

Are you afraid of taking too much material? 

 

Keep going until it fits.......don't know what else to say.........?

 

 

[AZJeff]

Did you do the measurements I suggested?   It would be ironic if the reamer wouldn’t solve the problem…..

[PIKE]

22 hours ago, PocketsEmptied said:

New ball joint and reamer came in today. Put the Spicer joint up to the knuckle and while the gap wasn't as bad, it still remains. No bueno.

 

So I took the reamer to the knuckle and it took some material from the bottom, but, like mentioned, would never take any off the top. So my problem still exists. I spent about an hour trying to ream out the hole with no success.

 

@Jeep Driver how did you end up fixing it?

 

Measure your ball joint diameter at the top then at the bottom of the taper. Then measure your reamer at the same distance. This will let you know if you have the correct angle reamer.  

[howeitsdone]

This has been solved. Needed a drill press. Thanks for the help. 

[AZJeff]

30 minutes ago, PocketsEmptied said:

This has been solved. Needed a drill press. Thanks for the help. 

Very good.  I am glad your issue was relatively simple to fix.

[Big Dan]

This has been solved. Needed a drill press. Thanks for the help. 

I'm assuming it was simply removing more material?

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