TNT Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I'm swapping in a '77 HP D44 and I think I'm going to use modified ford radius arms. I will be rotating the inner C's for proper pinion and caster angles. Then cut off the stock welded on axle wedges and weld new ones on further inboard. I should be able to set it up with 0 degree radius arm bushings to eliminate as much bind as possible. Then I can use some modified radius arms(like pictured below with 3" ballistic flex joints as the frame mounts to get the arms mounted as high as possible and have them clear the frame. Here are a couple of pictures of what I have in mind for the radius arms. Image Not Found Image Not Found Tell me what you think? Total lift will be about 8.5" or slightly more unless I change the front springs or cut them. I will be going SOA on my 9" rear axle and will adjust the front to match the rear lift or be about 1" lower in the front. The rear has some Stanley springs that add some lift, so do my shackles. I will probably mount the shackles in the rear frame rails to offset thier lift and keep them out of harms way. Your thoughts and opinions are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 What's the motivation to go so tall? I think the arms'll do great, but I don't think you'll need to inboard them after seeing Pete's. I'm sure he'll chime in on it, but I think he's the only one on here to change to a 44 and keep the Ford radius arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I did it on Casper, but I used stock ford mounts welded to the body :oops: :eek: and didnt like it, so I am going to deconstruct it, and strip said vehicle :nuts: There are a few issues you are going to have to deal with, but I like it, and it sounds like you have it under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 if you have an axle with welded on wedges why wouldn't you just slice them off and make a regular mounts.the problem with Ford radius arms is you will lose even more flex with those over the standard jeep mounts.they are both radius arms but the Jeep mounts allow for more movement between all the mounts.most Ford guys that run them slice one side(wristed) to allow it to rock back and forth with suspension droop and compression since the axle wants to rotate as it cycles basically it severs the same purpose and taking an upper link off of a Jeep radius arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I gotta run out the door, but here are a few quick thoughts, Flex isn't everything. Having said that, I hate, hate, hate the aftermarket poly C-bushings I used at first. They suck at allowing flex. I bought a set based on my original calculations and guesses on what my caster would be with my planned geometry and thank goodness my numbers were off and the stock rubbers worked fine (and allowed more flex). An unexpected advantage of the ford radius arms is that I don't need an anti-sway bar. I drove that hunk of rust to Moab and back and never ever thought, "Gee I wish I fabbed in a sway bar". Trying to tuck the arms mounting points up above the lower edge of the frame seem a bit over-kill, but I guess it depends on what you want and the design you come up with. I used Ford van mounts and welded them to my custom crossmember. They have hit stuff in the past, but never to the point where I might have gotten hung up (essentially it makes a nice ramp). It all depends on the terrain you wheel and how much perfection you want to design in. My truck was built with minimal money and minimal tools. Keep in mind that the higher up your rear mounting point, the steeper the angle of your arms will be. Getting your arms to clear the front of the frame might be tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK_YJ88 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 i have the ford radius arm up front, my are lengthened pretty far(don't remember exactly) and have johnny joints on the end. and i don't ahve any flex in the front. with stock springs in the rear the front doesnt move at all. ill get some pictures of my setup later and show you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I have the ford radius arms up front, mine are lengthened pretty far (don't remember exactly) and have johnny joints on the end. and I don't have any flex in the front. With stock springs in the rear the front doesn't move at all. I'll get some pictures of my setup later and show you all. What is the spring rate of the front coils? Are you using poly or rubber C-bushings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 I plan on setting it up with stock rubber wedge bushings with arms that are about 10" longer. I shoud be able to inboard the arms enough to clear the frame the bend will allow the arm to run straight back along the rail without hitting it. I'm looking forward to having the front end set-up so bothe the froint and rear suspension does the work. It will also do a great job of protecting the driveshaft. If I'm doing it I want to do it the best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK_YJ88 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I have the ford radius arms up front, mine are lengthened pretty far (don't remember exactly) and have johnny joints on the end. and I don't have any flex in the front. With stock springs in the rear the front doesn't move at all. I'll get some pictures of my setup later and show you all. What is the spring rate of the front coils? Are you using poly or rubber C-bushings? 180lbs I'm not sure but i think i have just stock replacement C-bushing if that helps. but i think my problem is to much flex in the rear axle. the rear will flex way before the front so the front springs have never had a chance to break it. Nor have the johnny joints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Rather than your rears being too soft, I'd phrase it as your fronts may be too stiff. I'm running 180s up front too but I have a wicked heavy front bumper. If you want to stiffen the rear a bit, I'd recommend adding a second main leaf from an MJ. Cut the eyes off and place it under your current main leaf. Helps to control spring-wrap too. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 Rather than your rears being too soft, I'd phrase it as your fronts may be too stiff. I'm running 180s up front too but I have a wicked heavy front bumper. If you want to stiffen the rear a bit, I'd recommend adding a second main leaf from an MJ. Cut the eyes off and place it under your current main leaf. Helps to control spring-wrap too. :thumbsup: From the looks of this pictre he is running poly bushings. That probably a big part of the problem Image Not Found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 10, 2007 Author Share Posted November 10, 2007 Wow when it said it was rescaled to fit my screen I should have clicked on it. :eek: At least I have broad band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK_YJ88 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 holy big picture of my jeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 It's never to late to edit and shrink that enormous photo. :brows: I think his truck is big enough already. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 It's never to late to edit and shrink that enormous photo. :brows: I think his truck is big enough already. :D Instead of making his Jeep smaller and hurting his ego, I just cropped off the edges... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 :D But back to the topic at hand, I hate the poly bushings. I couldn't even get full stuff with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Is that pic with the poly bushings? :roll: I sure hope it is. :D I have been thinking more about building a 3-link with a single passenger side arm and a trackbar. I'm just not sure if I can get enough flex with Ford radius arms to fully extend and compress my 11" travel shocks. I know I will with a 3-link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Yes it is. I bought black poly ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 So do you think with lengthened arms, 3" flex joints and rubber mounts I will get the amount of flex I'm hoping for or close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I guess that depends. How much flex do you think you need? Remember, I went with the Bronco arms for the ease of installation. If you're putting a ton of fab into them, will they be easier than links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 how much flex could you need huh? i need a lot and stock ford arms are not going to provide it standard Y link radius arms the only thing that was stopping it was the shock and the brake line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I totally agree that XJs could stand to attain plenty of flex up front. Your rear isn't fully stuffed yet. If fact, your rear axle isn't flexing much at all in that pic and to my uneducated eye that seems to be fairly typical of XJ leafs with bigger lifts. MJ rear suspensions perform better than an XJ's (partly due to things like longer leafs/shackles but most importantly we can go SOA and net 5-6" with our relatively flat leafs rather than needing even to add 5 inches of arch to said leafs). And since we can get more out of the rear suspension, that means the front can get away with doing less. I like how balanced my suspension turned out (although admittedly I was far less concerned with the suspension performance in the early days of the project than getting the hunka-hunka-oil-burning-rust out of my dad's garage). And I have even more available in the rear once I get the proper size shocks and I'd have more up front if I could let go of the stock flares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 oh i completely agree with the longer leafs of the Mj doing better then the Xj's shorter leafs.I still wouldn't want to sacrifice any travel up front just because of it though.i was more trying to point out the the lose of articulation is mostly from binding. i had no problem stuffing the rear tire its just a matter of the obstical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Offtopic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 lugs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Offtopic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 lugs... yep full width 44/60 combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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