Wounded_Fighter Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 Got most of the parts and torque specs I need. Parts include, head gasket, valve seals, lifters, intake/exhaust gasket, new header(pacesetter), head studs and nuts, sealant for head stud #11, thermostat 185f, thermostat gasket, new high flow water pump, pump gasket, timing chain and sprockets, timing cover gasket, pulley seal, motor mounts (browndog) I don't have a torque spec for motor mount to block or to frame, couldn't locate. Anyone know it? What am I missing or what else should I replace while I'm in this deep...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 I would NOT recommend changing the valve lifters unless you are changing the camshaft as well. Each existing lifter and it's matching cam lobe have worn into each other quite nicely, and changing one half of that now "mated" pair can invite trouble for the already used half (the camshaft). DO NOT use a 185 thermostat. The engine (and all associated emissions systems) were designed to run at 195*. By the way, you say "head studs" in your post. I was unaware of any of the years of the 4.0 in OEM trim that used anything but those special torque-to-yield head BOLTS. The brackets that attach the motor mount to the block are torqued to 45 ft-lbs. The ones that attach the mount to the bracket are as follows: 30 ft-lbs for all fasteners EXCEPT the mount through-bolt, which is torqued to 48 ft-lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted October 2, 2019 Author Share Posted October 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, AZJeff said: I would NOT recommend changing the valve lifters unless you are changing the camshaft as well. Each existing lifter and it's matching cam lobe have worn into each other quite nicely, and changing one half of that now "mated" pair can invite trouble for the already used half (the camshaft). Even with a sever lifter tap? Suppose I should do the cam too then? 12 minutes ago, AZJeff said: DO NOT use a 185 thermostat. It pretty much runs itself around 185-190 down the freeway I know it's not designed at that temp but, it doesn't seem to me like the needle is at 195+ ever. Not saying it's right at all, but it's what it seems to do? Egr delete, charcoal canister delete. 12 minutes ago, AZJeff said: By the way, you say "head studs" in your post. I was unaware of any of the years of the 4.0 in OEM trim that used anything but those special torque-to-yield head BOLTS. I was assuming the same but mine has studs and I'm not sure of their condition so I'm replacing with new arp studs. 12 minutes ago, AZJeff said: The brackets that attach the motor mount to the block are torqued to 45 ft-lbs. The ones that attach the mount to the bracket are as follows: 30 ft-lbs for all fasteners EXCEPT the mount through-bolt, which is torqued to 48 ft-lbs. The through-bolt being the 'piviot'-bolt between the two mounts correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 You can remove and clean the lifters (and put them back in the same holes they came out of). If you have lifter tap, how sludgy is the engine to begin with? Are the oil passages all gunky? 195 is what is intended to achieve the leanest burn for emissions. It also extends spark plug life and reduces carbon buildup. Don’t trust the temp. Gauge to be accurate. It may actually be running at a temp higher or lower than indicated. i will defer to others about any 4.0 with studs/nuts in lieu of bolts, as that is new to me. Yes, the through bolt is the pivot bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 The head bolts are bolts but a few have threads extending past the "head" so I guess you could call them studs. Run a 195* thermostat. Nothing else. How sure are you it's the lifters making noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Dzimm said: How sure are you it's the lifters making noise? I've already had the bottom end off and checked for piston skirt slap and clearance, 95% sure it's a lifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 8 hours ago, AZJeff said: You can remove and clean the lifters (and put them back in the same holes they came out of). If you have lifter tap, how sludgy is the engine to begin with? Are the oil passages all gunky? Didnt seem at all dirty when I had the valve cover off. Heads coming off anyway so I'll be giving it a good cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75sv1 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 As for studs vs bolts. I was looking at getting the ARP studs. I do not remember where my info came from. Weather from the builder of my stroker motor parts or other sources. Unless you are doing supercharging or turbo, or very high compression, then you would not need head studs. The down side to studs is if you have a problem with the head while the motor is in, then it is difficult to get the head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Pretty sure you don't torque the through bolt on the Brown Dog mounts........check their literature, common complaint for vibration. And if you like vibration you'll love the BD mounts. The head bolts are bolts, not studs. I guess you can refer to those on the outside of the VC as a combination bolt/stud or a studded bolt, the only one you'll use is the most rearward for the grounding strap. If you are going to use studs anywhere, replace the intake/exhaust bolts with studs and Stover nuts. Use existing washers. Lifter tick causes- bent push rod, low oil pressure, worn rocker (highly unlikely), failing tappet, worn lobes on cam. I suspect it is a combination of low oil pressure and worn cam and failing lifter/tappet. If this is your goal, to get rid of the tick, you are replacing your cam. Since you are replacing the cam........timing cover is coming off, head is coming off..............your oil pan is coming off too. If you are taking the pan off you might as well replace the rear main seal. If you are going that far you might as well replace the oil pump and pick up tube. At this point you are $600 and a two day weekend's worth of work into this. Why would you not spend another $250 and get the head worked? Since you have stripped the entire block down to the rotating assembly........why not spend another $600 and rebuild the bottom end? Why not just pull the engine? Surely you are not going to reinstall the old harmonic balancer? Or the old water pump? I would not rely on your temp gauge/sender.....seriously doubt you are running 60mph on the highway at 185 degrees. On and old worn 4.0........you are the anomaly. And if it's running that good.......leave it alone. You'll have unforeseen expenses, radiator hoses...whatever......cleaning supplies....vacuum hoses......heater core hoses....etc...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I pretty much stopped watching Tony's vids because of this- Skip to 3:20 and see what happens to a cam lobe and lifter when stupid is as stupid does. Do it right or don't do it at all. And this guy should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Pretty sure you don't torque the through bolt on the Brown Dog mounts........check their literature, common complaint for vibration. And if you like vibration you'll love the BD mounts. The head bolts are bolts, not studs. I guess you can refer to those on the outside of the VC as a combination bolt/stud or a studded bolt, the only one you'll use is the most rearward for the grounding strap. If you are going to use studs anywhere, replace the intake/exhaust bolts with studs and Stover nuts. Use existing washers. Lifter tick causes- bent push rod, low oil pressure, worn rocker (highly unlikely), failing tappet, worn lobes on cam. I suspect it is a combination of low oil pressure and worn cam and failing lifter/tappet. If this is your goal, to get rid of the tick, you are replacing your cam. Since you are replacing the cam........timing cover is coming off, head is coming off..............your oil pan is coming off too. If you are taking the pan off you might as well replace the rear main seal. If you are going that far you might as well replace the oil pump and pick up tube. At this point you are $600 and a two day weekend's worth of work into this. Why would you not spend another $250 and get the head worked? Since you have stripped the entire block down to the rotating assembly........why not spend another $600 and rebuild the bottom end? Why not just pull the engine? Surely you are not going to reinstall the old harmonic balancer? Or the old water pump? I would not rely on your temp gauge/sender.....seriously doubt you are running 60mph on the highway at 185 degrees. On and old worn 4.0........you are the anomaly. And if it's running that good.......leave it alone. You'll have unforeseen expenses, radiator hoses...whatever......cleaning supplies....vacuum hoses......heater core hoses....etc...... LOTS of good points here. If the oil supply is good (clean pan and good pump) I would look for piston slap to be the noise source. My 4.0 will slap on a hot restart for 30 seconds or so, in spite of clean lifters (with a new head) and more than adequate oil pressure. The slap goes away (mostly) once the temperature stabilizes again, and does NOT get louder once the engine comes off idle. i forgot about theBD motor mounts I put in one of my XJs—-if you tighten the center bolt to spec, the engine will shake the chassis like all get out. And DO NOT buy the ones with a urethane isolator—stay with the rubber ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted October 3, 2019 Author Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Pretty sure you don't torque the through bolt on the Brown Dog mounts........check their literature, common complaint for vibration. And if you like vibration you'll love the BD mounts. Interesting... 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: The head bolts are bolts, not studs. I guess you can refer to those on the outside of the VC as a combination bolt/stud or a studded bolt, the only one you'll use is the most rearward for the grounding strap. This might be what I was thinking looking at them again 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: If you are going to use studs anywhere, replace the intake/exhaust bolts with studs and Stover nuts. Use existing washers. Check, done. Because I found 2 that walked out on their own. 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Lifter tick causes- bent push rod, Will check 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: low oil pressure, No, gauge works good, tested. 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: worn rocker (highly unlikely), Will check 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: failing tappet, Possibly 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: worn lobes on cam. Will check 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: I suspect it is a combination of low oil pressure and worn cam and failing lifter/tappet. If this is your goal, to get rid of the tick, you are replacing your cam. Maybe even as simple as a sticking valve? 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Since you are replacing the cam........timing cover is coming off, head is coming off..............your oil pan is coming off too. If you are taking the pan off you might as well replace the rear main seal. T/C will be, have a new gearset Pan has been off and R/M already done. 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: If you are going that far you might as well replace the oil pump and pick up tube. Done already 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: At this point you are $600 and a two day weekend's worth of work into this. Why would you not spend another $250 and get the head worked? Definitely thinking about it..... 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Since you have stripped the entire block down to the rotating assembly........why not spend another $600 and rebuild the bottom end? Why not just pull the engine? Time, which I suspect will bite me in the @$$ later. 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Surely you are not going to reinstall the old harmonic balancer? Or the old water pump? Newer balancer already on. New pump in hand. 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: I would not rely on your temp gauge/sender.....seriously doubt you are running 60mph on the highway at 185 degrees. On and old worn 4.0........you are the anomaly. And if it's running that good.......leave it alone. I believe it is, but open to opinion on temps. Pics to follow. But my main reasons for pulling the head are as follows. #1 Coolant dripping on my exhaust near the rear main.....?? #2 lifter tap. #3 inspect valves. #4 exhaust leak (head didnt have to come off for that, but fix anyway) 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: You'll have unforeseen expenses, radiator hoses...whatever......cleaning supplies....vacuum hoses......heater core hoses....etc...... Both upper and lower hoses have been replaced, and heater hoses bypassed since my core failed in cab. Pics, Night: (didnt notice it was blurred) meh... Day: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I am going to retract my previous statement about not replacing lifters. I found a website where a Jeeper replaced lifters sucessfully without any adverse effects. If you cannot clean the lifters (or it's too much of a PITA), then new lifters is probably not a bad idea after all. And now I understand why you called them "studs" They are actually double ended bolts. The head portion is a permanent part of the threaded shank, which makes them a bolt instead of a stud and nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wounded_Fighter Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 hours ago, AZJeff said: I am going to retract my previous statement about not replacing lifters. I found a website where a Jeeper replaced lifters sucessfully without any adverse effects. If you cannot clean the lifters (or it's too much of a PITA), then new lifters is probably not a bad idea after all. And now I understand why you called them "studs" They are actually double ended bolts. The head portion is a permanent part of the threaded shank, which makes them a bolt instead of a stud and nut. Seen lots of his videos, that noise actually turned out to be piston slap for him. His videos is where I decided to just replace the lifters since mine wasn't the slapper clapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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