NTK O2 sensor 23553 (RENIX)

[Eagle_SX4]

That one does look different than the 12009's I have. Both of them get stuck sometimes at about .6 volts and it won't go into closed loop. Sometimes they seem to work fine. Cycling between .9 and 4.9. I think my issue might be with my injectors though because my ST value is usually about 0-30 and faults rich when they bounce off of 0.

[Htchevyii]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:08 AM, Eagle_SX4 said:

Has anyone tried a GM 3 wire oxygen sensor? I am trying to track down an O2 sensor issue and found that not many people have had luck with the new sensors. I started looking on Rock Auto for a GM vehicle with a 3 wire O2 sensor and found that from 92-94 the 4.3 V6 used a 3 wire sensor with a male weather pack connecter on it. Bosch #13077 or NTK #21003. They are much cheaper than the jeep ones and was wondering if I swapped the connector would it work?

I'm not sure where you ended up, but I just purchased a Bosch 12009 and it seems that they have changed the design or manufacturer since the last few that I purchased. The first pic is the one that I just received, the second is what I have been receiving for the last few years.

[Eagle_SX4]

13 minutes ago, Htchevyii said:

I'm not sure where you ended up

I found a NOS ceramic Bosch 12009 on eBay and that is what I am running now. It will be interesting to see how this new design works.

[fiatslug87]

@Htchevyii does that new one have three wires coming out of the body instead of Four as in the previous metal body version?

[Htchevyii]

On 9/11/2024 at 3:08 PM, fiatslug87 said:

@Htchevyii does that new one have three wires coming out of the body instead of Four as in the previous metal body version?

I just checked, 3 wires.

[fiatslug87]

Nice! Looks like supply of functional O2 sensors is back.

[Salvagedcircuit]

40 minutes ago, Htchevyii said:

I just checked, 3 wires.

Woah. Where did you purchase this from? Is it a new old stock part or was this from a large retailer? I've been hunting down new old stock o2 sensors and it's a chore (brother also has a renix XJ). Thanks.

 

[Htchevyii]

I ordered it on Amazon. Of course their picture shows a different style yet. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BZJ62C?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image

[Salvagedcircuit]

6 minutes ago, Htchevyii said:

I ordered it on Amazon. Of course their picture shows a different style yet. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BZJ62C?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image

Woah. Curious. Where does the box say it's made?

[Htchevyii]

On 9/12/2024 at 7:46 PM, Salvagedcircuit said:

Woah. Curious. Where does the box say it's made?

Good question, it doesn't say anywhere on the box or sensor that I could see.

[Salvagedcircuit]

I ordered 3 and they are all identical. They all have 3 wires from the base of the sensor to the connector and have some mass to them, unlike the slender-body 4 wire o2 sensors that are problematic.

What is odd is the Bosch boxes have no barcodes on them and no mentions of manufacturing location. This is supposed to be on the box, like in the last photo of the problematic 4 wire O2 sensor. The connector pins on all 3 of my purchased O2 sensors are bent which is also strange. There is also no paperwork in the boxes, like the new-old stock ones I've purchased off ebay.

 

How has it been working for you @Htchevyii ?

I'm going to measure these and compare them to my other known good ones.

I'm also going to ask the seller whats up and why the original labels are being removed. Maybe he got a hold of old stock from a parts store or some fell off a truck . Seems strange.

 

[fiatslug87]

What are the Ω readings between A & B? Should be 5-7.

[Salvagedcircuit]

I believe the O2 sensors being sold at the amazon link below, listed above, are not correct:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BZJ62C

 

I took resistance readings on my failed o2 sensor, the 4 wire bosch o2 sensor and two known good new old stock o2 sensors from AC delco and SMP. Here are my results:

The 3 wire very old and failed O2 sensor  that came with my MJ measured 373 ohms between pin "B" and pin "A"

The 4 wire bosch sensor measured 4.6 ohms between pin "B" and pin "A"

The 3 wire new old stock SMP and AC Delco sensor measured 6.0-6.5 ohms between pin "B" and pin "A"

The 3 wire bosch 12009 sensors I just purchased from that amazon link above measured infinite. There is no resistance between pin "B" and pin "A." These sensors will not work at all. I'm probably going to request a refund. They may be factory rejects or relabeled from something else. Something is not right.

 

 

The measurements taken were between B and A.

 

For giggles, I measured between C and A and it measured 3.7 ohms. I did not test C and A measurements on the other sensors.

 

[fiatslug87]

[Salvagedcircuit]

I'm away from my MJ at the moment, but I did some more testing. My brother suggested that ceramic manufacturing processes have changed since the 1970s and it's possible the sensor does not read within the 5-7 ohm range when not at temperature. I used a heatgun and applied heat to the o2 sensor for 5 minutes, varying side to side on the O2 sensor. The resistance between A and C climbed to 5.7ohm and stabilized while at 280F. The measurement between A and B was still open and infinite. It is possible these sensors were wired wrong and the wire for C is supposed to be in B. I am planning on duplicating the test with the new old stock sensor to see how it performs under the same thermal conditions. The resistance between C and A gradually falls while the O2 sensor is cooling. It's currently at 4.7ohm, once it reached ambient temperature it's back at 3.7ohm.

 

It's possible this sensor will work with the wires swapped. 

@Htchevyiihave you had luck with your recently purchased o2 sensor and do you have a renix monitor to tell if the O2 sensor is working properly? I'll try and test these sensors next week when I'm at my MJ.

 

[Htchevyii]

19 hours ago, Salvagedcircuit said:

I'm away from my MJ at the moment, but I did some more testing. My brother suggested that ceramic manufacturing processes have changed since the 1970s and it's possible the sensor does not read within the 5-7 ohm range when not at temperature. I used a heatgun and applied heat to the o2 sensor for 5 minutes, varying side to side on the O2 sensor. The resistance between A and C climbed to 5.7ohm and stabilized while at 280F. The measurement between A and B was still open and infinite. It is possible these sensors were wired wrong and the wire for C is supposed to be in B. I am planning on duplicating the test with the new old stock sensor to see how it performs under the same thermal conditions. I'm watching the resistance between C and A and it is gradually falling while the O2 sensor is cooling. It's currently at 4.7ohm, but I'm curious where it will stay once it reaches ambient temperature.

 

It's possible this sensor will work with the wires swapped. 

@Htchevyiihave you had luck with your recently purchased o2 sensor and do you have a renix monitor to tell if the O2 sensor is working properly? I'll try and test these sensors next week when I'm at my MJ.

 

Hmmm, good to know. In fact the new sensor may not be working. I had a bunch of weird high and low voltage codes on the heater side as well as the low voltage side on my REM with the old sensor(4 wire Bosch).

I swapped in the new one and show 4.98 V with no swing. I was thinking perhaps I had a wiring issue or bad ECU, but haven't had time to try and figure it out. I might just have to do the wideband conversation through the REM. Please keep us posted on what you find.

[Salvagedcircuit]

These above amazon o2 sensors are not for the renix Comanches. A correct o2 sensor climbs to 9ohms under heat. The Amazon one plateaus at 5.7ohms. I swapped the c and b pins as mentioned earlier, installed one in my comanche and the engine would not idle correctly. It sounded like it was going to grenade itself.

[Htchevyii]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:56 PM, Salvagedcircuit said:

Well phooey! I guess that I'll send mine back to Amazon. Thanks for your research on these. I think that the '89 XJ has an ECM or wiring issue, any sensor that I install shows 4.98v lean as black comes out of the tailpipe. I've got an extra ECU, I'll try before I dive into wiring diagnostics.