ParadiseMJ Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Hey there MJ'ers. I posted awhile ago with a transmission issue. I did not think the transmission was shot, even though the truck would not move, although the engine ran fine. It felt to me like a torque converter, so I took it to a shop and the guy told me my torque converter was shot. So, I replaced it. Along the way I replaced all the shaft seals. Front behind the torque converter, transmission output, t-case input, t-case output. I replaced all the vent hoses too, because they were squishy and worn out...and the linkage bushings for the t-case linkage. I put it all back together. I filled it up with fluid, 8 qts. I drove it. All good June 1st. Engine runs good, tranny shifts really well, in all gears it feels just a skosh stronger. Drove it around town, to the dump (20 miles r/t), up hills, down hills, freeway, dirt roads. Added a bit more fluid according to the dipstick (hot, running and in Neutral). Everything perfect. Fast forward to last Wednesday. I pack it up to go camping, not a big load, canoe, camping gear etc. Check all the fluids, all good. Hit the road. I get about 15 miles from home and started laying down a James Bond smoke screen. Stop the truck, look under, think I may have filled it too full and fluid was puking out the dipstick. Nope, there is fresh red fluid POURING out the front of the bell housing. Result...towed home, switch to my car...go on trip. Can anyone give me a good reason why the front seal would have blown out, and/or if there would be anything else that would cause this hemorrhage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 After a quick search, the front seal blowing out seems to be a pretty common AW4 problem. And I couldn't find a definitive fix that lasted. In most all cases it looked like the "fix" was replacing the tranny. I know you have done a lot of work on that transmission, but maybe it's just worn out and it's time on earth is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Wait...that horse CAN'T be dead yet. It's puzzling to me that after driving it around for more than a week it blew the seal when I wanted to go somewhere. Maybe I should put the BA-10 back in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Is the vent line clogged? Maybe built up too much pressure and blew out the seal. Just my 2¢ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akula69 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 87MJTIM, on 22 Jun 2016 - 07:16 AM, said: Is the vent line clogged? Maybe built up too much pressure and blew out the seal. Just my 2¢ X2. I believe that is what caused mine to leak. I know there is a thread around here somewhere about temp sensor bungs on the housing, but has anyone ever tried to put a pressure gauge on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 A 87MJTIM, on 22 Jun 2016 - 07:16 AM, said: Is the vent line clogged? Maybe built up too much pressure and blew out the seal. Just my 2¢ X2. I believe that is what caused mine to leak. I know there is a thread around here somewhere about temp sensor bungs on the housing, but has anyone ever tried to put a pressure gauge on it? Since I don't know enough about transmissions, my thought is that there has to be pressure to push out a seal that is otherwise (seemingly) been installed correctly. Where that pressure comes from...more importantly...what causes enough pressure to push out the seal. Just normal operation or something gone wrong. Just as a side note: did I mention that the trans runs smooth, shifts at the proper speeds (rpm) and has never really given me one iota of trouble since I installed it and ironed out the electricals. No jerking, slipping, clunking etc. It's entirely possible that the vent line is kinked, since I replaced the line with a stiffer hose and routed it differently. Then once I put the trans in place, it seemed a little cramped up in there. I'll know better when I drop the trans again. However, other than that does anyone have another idea that could explain undue pressure in the trans. Thanks for the replies (and Don, I'm not discounting your reply, you may be entirely correct...I'm either a sucker or an optimist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I admire your stick–to–itiveness Charlie and hope I'm wrong. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 OK folks, I'm going to give this one more shot and keep is as simple as possible. The Jeep still sits as I haven't had the time to tinker with it. What could CAUSE excessive pressure inside the transmission...enough to blow a new seal out, or blow past a seal. Possibilities that I can think of: 1. A kinked or clogged vent hose. 2. A piece of dirt...or some sort of blockage in the valve body? (there's no evidence that there's any dirt or gunk in there) 3. Alien invasion, government conspiracy, jet con trails ? 4. It's Obama's fault ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I'll go with 3 and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 I thought I'd throw those two in there... One from the left, one from the right. Boom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Did the seal 'blow' or did it fall out? Stuff wears out, things aren't made to spec, and the factory may not have just put the seals in dry. I put new seals in with RTV on them when things get old, seems to help most of the time. But I'd check your vent line and the little vent cap thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 Did the seal 'blow' or did it fall out? Stuff wears out, things aren't made to spec, and the factory may not have just put the seals in dry. I put new seals in with RTV on them when things get old, seems to help most of the time. But I'd check your vent line and the little vent cap thing too. That is an excellent question. I don't know the answer. I have not dropped the trans yet, but I do know that I had fluid pouring out the inspection plate...so I a$$ume the seal is out, or broken. I did seat the seal with a hammer and a piece of PVC pipe and it seated properly AFAIK. The RTV is a great idea. Now for the vent line. I know it's not clogged but it could be kinked (?)...and the plastic doo dad is intact. So is that a check valve,,,like air out but no air/water in? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 If you just pull the vent line off and fire it up, does it puke oil? As long as it is dry out, you can go for a drive without the vent line on with very minimal risk. If it does not puke, that may be all your problem is. If the seal is broken it could have been defective, or there is a score/burr that's cutting it. If I'm visualizing this correctly, that's the one that rides on the torque converter? If there was paint on the converter where it rides, that can do it even. Also, your converter might be cracked, or the crimp came apart, depending on design and construction. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well, finally getting time to look at the tranny in earnest. I popped the inspection plate expecting to find a bunch of fluid in the bell housing. Nothing. It's dry. None on the converter or flexplate. Not sure if the font seal actually failed. So now tracing the fluid trail. The connector at the front tranny line is loose and there's fluid leaking there. Then there's fluid on the other side if the motor, drive shaft, etc. So, I'm looking at the vent line. It has half of the plastic fitting, but the "hat" is missing. Is the hat important? Also, is it possible that the loose "out" line allowed enough air in to increase the internal pressure of the tranny? I'm pretty sure that that's where it was puking, or out the top vent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well, finally getting time to look at the tranny in earnest. I popped the inspection plate expecting to find a bunch of fluid in the bell housing. Nothing. It's dry. None on the converter or flexplate. Not sure if the font seal actually failed. So now tracing the fluid trail. The connector at the front tranny line is loose and there's fluid leaking there. Then there's fluid on the other side if the motor, drive shaft, etc. So, I'm looking at the vent line. It has half of the plastic fitting, but the "hat" is missing. Is the hat important? Also, is it possible that the loose "out" line allowed enough air in to increase the internal pressure of the tranny? I'm pretty sure that that's where it was puking, or out the top vent ...and hornbrod, I replied to your old post in classified about the adapters,vthen I realized it was in Classifieds Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Well, finally getting time to look at the tranny in earnest. I popped the inspection plate expecting to find a bunch of fluid in the bell housing. Nothing. It's dry. None on the converter or flexplate. Not sure if the font seal actually failed. So now tracing the fluid trail. The connector at the front tranny line is loose and there's fluid leaking there. Then there's fluid on the other side if the motor, drive shaft, etc. So, I'm looking at the vent line. It has half of the plastic fitting, but the "hat" is missing. Is the hat important? Also, is it possible that the loose "out" line allowed enough air in to increase the internal pressure of the tranny? I'm pretty sure that that's where it was puking, or out the top vent ...and hornbrod, I replied to your old post in classified about the adapters,vthen I realized it was in Classifieds Doh! I do have some of those vent valves with the hat. Do you need one? Image Not Found My 2WD AW4 didn't have a hose - the valve simply plugged into tranny. The 4WD version is attached to a hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 I need two. Or a source where I can find them. What the heck are they called anyway? More importantly what do they do, just keep water out or air tooo, I thought the hose just vented one way...OUT. Anyway, if there isn't a place to buy them, I'd be interested in two of them. The ones I've found at the junkyard are super brittle and or broken as well. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Dorman sells them under their Help! brand, so you can get them at Napa/whatever normally. P/N 14689 Edit. Common names is 'Axle vent' or 'Transmission vent' or 'Transmission case vent' or 'Gearbox vent' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 ^^ There you go. Mine looked similar, but they weren't Dorman. Don't know if the size is the same either. The AW4 has a 3/8" hole that the vent (or hose adapter if mounting remotely) presses into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Ok, so under the Jeep today. Found the front trans line leaking badly. Took i5 apart, the connection that is, and found one of the two o-rings broken. They were new so I guess that's why it was so hard to click in. As I said there was fluid all around. So far I've run it up and down the road...+/- 20 miles with the inspection cover off to see if it was leaking there...no. Dry as a bone. The new connectors are solid, no hose kinks...but I have yet to get it up to 60+, which is when my troubles started. I'm pretty happy right now. I'll be taking on several higher speed test runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Great to hear Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 So..... After all the crap I did with this tranny, it was still leaking out the front seal. To re-cap, I pulled the tranny to replaced the torque converter, replace the seal, it seemed to fix it, but when I took off on a road trip,,,I got about 20 miles into it and was laying down a smoke screen like 007. Pulled over, looked under, Fluid everywhere. Leaking out the front seal, leaking out the tranny lines, fixed the tranny lines. Still leaked out the front. After pretty much having it sit in my driveway, except for short trips around town, it was till leaking marginally out the front. Well, I dropped the tranny again yesterday after getting a new seal and some t-case parts. Pulled out the OLD new seal. I compared it to the NEW new seal...THEY WEREN'T EVEN CLOSE. One (the one I had originally replaced the old, old one with) had an i.d. of 1 5/8" . The newest seal...the right one...has an i.d. of 1 1/2". Are you f'ing kidding me. I slid the old seal onto the torque converter hub, and it wiggled around like crazy...the new seal is tighter than, well, you know...it's perfectly snug. So, new seal installed tranny back together, 50 miles of freeway travel...not a drip, drop or drizzle of leaking. So, it's FINALLY fixed. Be sure to check the size of the new seal, or any part against the old...I got the OLD new seal at NAPA, BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Good to hear - finally! What a major PITA. The place I always use for AW4 parts throughout the years is HERE. Never had a problem - yet...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 I really couldn't believe it. I showed the OLD new seal, and the NEW seal to my wife, who knows zip about things mechanical and said "what do you see"? She said "they're different sizes." Doh!! So, now, all new vent hoses, new seal, filter, gaskets, output seal on trans and input on t-case, and t-case output seal, u-joints. Back on the road...as you said...finally. Where can I find a pigtail for the electric connection on the t-case to tranny? Or even the whole 8" piece...it's an HO tranny/t-case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 So the light will work? That little extension harness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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