yxmj Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 That is funny...I stand by the first statement....but in your temper tantrum you have read wrong and used someone else's words in the second quote....if your going to attack someone you should at least be accurate.....isn't there a 101 connector to be cleaned or eliminated somewhere in the world today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Yes yxmj, the standard 4.2 4-weight is used in their crate engines unless you specify differently. After installing my Hesco crate engine (not their kit) I had it dynoed to establish baseline HP/Torque specs so I could see what improvements (or non-improvements) my later bolt-ons would do. I noticed right off on the first run that I had a drivetrain loss of ~30% between the test stand engine HP/Torque specs and the actual at the rear wheels, which is pretty normal with the AW4. My original goal was to eliminate this 30% drivetrain loss with bolt-on upgrades. These included the 01 intake, bored throttle body, a Mike Leach long header, 2.5" dual exhaust system, Unichip, and some ignition and A/F stuff. Since Hesco is right down the road from where I live, I brought it down once a year or so to check the results. On the last run a few years ago I was up a 40% improvement over original, so I eliminated the drivetrain loss and then some. I was happy with that and haven't done much since except little stuff. The 01 intake was actually a 12 HP gain (at 3500RPM) which debunked the BS that the "horse shoe" intake did nothing and could actually degrade performance. All this is documented on the stroker forum. Unless you see the actual dyno results for what you're doing before and after, claimed improvements are nothing but BS. The butt dyno is highly over-rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 That is funny...I stand by the first statement....but in your temper tantrum you have read wrong and used someone else's words in the second quote....if your going to attack someone you should at least be accurate.....isn't there a 101 connector to be cleaned or eliminated somewhere in the world today? My bad. I fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hornbrod I see what you are saying....but I would be wrong starting out..to be totally accurate I would need to have dyno results on the original 4.0. I do have the horse shoe and a 7120 head and all my personal jeeps are 5 speeds....so I should be able to sqeeze the most out of what is available. I have read and re-read as many of the forums and build articles that are available so part of my "recipe" is to add as many of the major proven components as I can in the initial build....if I am happy the 2nd will be a clone....if not I am fortunate enough to have a stock of blocks heads intakes and cranks to try something different....but...I think I will be happy with this first combo. Do the Hesco boys have a spot on a site somewhere were the post dyno results (curves)? That might be interesting reading :thumbsup: . :MJ 1: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Do the Hesco boys have a spot on a site somewhere were the post dyno results (curves)? That might be interesting reading :thumbsup: Not that I know of. Hesco has a good stroker web site here: http://www.hesco.us/forum/default.asp My early dyno charts are posted here: http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 YXMJ, Don is absolutely correct about the value and the NEED for actual dyno tests to document results of changes to the engine. While I have not built a Jeep stroker, I have gone down this path with my VW TDI engine. The stock VW 90 hp TDI engine puts out about 78 hp at the front wheels. Over the years of modifiying my engine I have run more 2 dozen different dyno tests to prove out the results of different modifications. My current tune on the TDI puts down 162 hp and 285 lb/ft at the front wheels. And at that I dialed back the tune from 173 hp and 313 lb/ft to reduce smoke and to keep the clutch from slipping. My plan for spring includes pushing the boost up another 6 lbs (32 psi) and adding more fuel. Dialing in the extra boost and the required amount of fuel will require about 8 or 9 more runs on the dyno, but we will be sure to document the results. From there, I have a ported/polished head to test for power improvements. Without all the dyno testing, I will have no data to validate the value of the ported head. Last summer, I participated in some cam dyno tests. The dyno showed no measurable gains in spite of the claims from people who purchased different cams and only used their "butt dynos". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stDeuce Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Butt Dyno explained: Your butt dyno sits directly on your wallet, and roughly measures how far your butt is pushed into the seat. As your wallet thins, your butt goes further into the seat, and it's associated "dyno" detects it as better performance. :) When it comes to stuff like building engines, there is a lot of pride on the line. People spend a LOT of money, and always want to justify that expense. I'm no expert, nor am I claiming to be, but I know what I know. I've built several engines that are still going strong. I worked in Vehicle Development at Jeep when they actually put together a 4.5L stroker to see how it did in a TJ Unlimited, and they pushed to get it a trial in a Dakota. It was a stock 4.0l, with a 258 crank and rods, and that's it. I made a tweak to pull out 2° of timing so it would run on regular without ping, but aside from that, It ran awesome. Unfortunately, the Powertrain group wanted the 4.0L to DIE, not to live on, and impact said absolutely no to the straight six in a Dakota, so that was the end. If you are looking to make a very low budget stroker that's minimally fussy and will run forever while making quite a bit more power than the 4.0L, then the recipe is out there, and proven, and it's pretty cheap to do. Good luck with your builds, whether they're armchair or actual! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: . :MJ 1: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Butt Dyno explained: Your butt dyno sits directly on your wallet, and roughly measures how far your butt is pushed into the seat. As your wallet thins, your butt goes further into the seat, and it's associated "dyno" detects it as better performance. :) When it comes to stuff like building engines, there is a lot of pride on the line. People spend a LOT of money, and always want to justify that expense. I'm no expert, nor am I claiming to be, but I know what I know. I've built several engines that are still going strong. I worked in Vehicle Development at Jeep when they actually put together a 4.5L stroker to see how it did in a TJ Unlimited, and they pushed to get it a trial in a Dakota. It was a stock 4.0l, with a 258 crank and rods, and that's it. I made a tweak to pull out 2° of timing so it would run on regular without ping, but aside from that, It ran awesome. Unfortunately, the Powertrain group wanted the 4.0L to DIE, not to live on, and impact said absolutely no to the straight six in a Dakota, so that was the end. If you are looking to make a very low budget stroker that's minimally fussy and will run forever while making quite a bit more power than the 4.0L, then the recipe is out there, and proven, and it's pretty cheap to do. Good luck with your builds, whether they're armchair or actual! :) Yes!! Are you familiar with the 282 CI engine from VAM? Mexican. Different block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I have yet to Dyno my 4.7L Stroker but the good old Butt Dyno says Wow (I can Burn up 35's with ease) I am hoping to get it on the dyno before my Supercharger goes on now that I have just over 10K KM on my Stroker and then again after... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Do it! I'd love to see your real world WOT numbers before and after. It might just be the "nudge" I need. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 As Soon as I order in my Custom Torque converter as I need a lower Stall converter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Do it! I'd love to see your real world WOT numbers before and after. It might just be the "nudge" I need. :cheers: Stroked and Blown???? Maybe I wasn't wrong when I put "porn" I the subject line :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Do it! I'd love to see your real world WOT numbers before and after. It might just be the "nudge" I need. :cheers: Stroked and Blown???? Maybe I wasn't wrong when I put "porn" I the subject line :dunno: Yep - you nailed it. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Do it! I'd love to see your real world WOT numbers before and after. It might just be the "nudge" I need. :cheers: Stroked and Blown???? Maybe I wasn't wrong when I put "porn" I the subject line :dunno: Ask Hornbrod about the stroked and blown Comanche we both drove. I drove it out in Arizona when my buddy from Jeep Racing was tuning it with Electramotive fuel injection. Don drove it later when it was at Hesco. We put the beefier parts in the transmission that he got from Japan. I'm guessing Celica Supra parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Do it! I'd love to see your real world WOT numbers before and after. It might just be the "nudge" I need. :cheers: Stroked and Blown???? Maybe I wasn't wrong when I put "porn" I the subject line :dunno: Yep - you nailed it. :yes: This is too much of a funny coincidence....because my next inquiry was going to be about the best Head... :rotf: :rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 You're a sick man yxmj. :rotfl2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Yes....sad but true....but seriously what wisdom can you pass alone as far as the choices you made with the head on your 4.6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Outside of some port polishing it's a stock head. I do have the unicorn of headers though, the long extinct Mopar Performance long tube header by Mike Leach. Wish it still looked like this though.............. Note: Added "long tube" to keep the porn theme going, but that's what it's really called. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 I have seen pics of your engine compartment and I would be supprised if it did not still look like that.. :bowdown: As far as the head....a 7120 casting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Si, 7120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 :thumbsup: thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I like that Header... I just might Have to make one similar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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