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Diesel (TDi) conversion discussion & research


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That looks waaaay more complicated than my swap! Good job to them. But it looks like their set up costs about $3k-4k plus you gotta buy the engine. Not too bad I guess. About what I have in my 3.3..

 

Where did you find that $3-4k price?  That would be a good price, depending on what else you have to buy.

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For those who haven't looked at their other conversions; this kit should allow the use of all of the OEM Jeep acessories, AX-15 / AX-5 transmission/flywheel/clutch, and OEM engine mounts.  I'm not so sure I'll purchase the pre-fabbed harness from them because I'm comfortable with wiring.  While I'm a little disappointed that my mTDI ambition has to go bye-bye, it looks like the Volkswagen Pumpe Duse TDI is quite a little engine (once the camshaft is dealt with.)   

I'll be on the lookout for an '03-'06 Beetle, Jetta, or Golf as a donor. 

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  • 2 months later...

You need to go over to the TDIClub and check out a few of the Toyota TDI conversions.  You will find a whole lot more good information and practical solutions.  You will also find a couple of Jeep TDI conversions:

 

http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=63

 

I can tell you that very few (like ZERO) of those people have $20 in a conversion.  I would guess most are around $5K, including the VW they started with.

 

Pay particular attention to the first post in the Stickied Thread:

 

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=142679

 

You will find links to 6 different Jeep TDI conversions in that post.

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So what is the value of such a conversion? You will never recover the cost in fuel savings. I am reminded of the whole thing about more dollars then sense, to be honest. It certainly will not increase the resale value of the vehicle enough to warrant the cost. You would be light years ahead by even buying one of those over-priced stroker crate engines for power & simplicity. 

 

I guess I never have been one for the "because it can be done" argument for doing things. 

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So what is the value of such a conversion? You will never recover the cost in fuel savings. I am reminded of the whole thing about more dollars then sense, to be honest. It certainly will not increase the resale value of the vehicle enough to warrant the cost. You would be light years ahead by even buying one of those over-priced stroker crate engines for power & simplicity. 

 

I guess I never have been one for the "because it can be done" argument for doing things. 

No doubt most people would never make up for the cost in fuel savings.  I'm not totally sold on this or any conversion by any means, and I would NEVER pay someone to do that kind of work for me; not that it's not worth good money for someone's time but I'm capable of the installation part myself.  I'm just glad to see a big player (HPA Motorsports) paying attention to ye olde XJ/MJ platform!

 

I'd break it down like this

 

Pros (justifications for spending 5 or even 8k on a TDI conversion):

-mpg

-similar (or better) torque curve compared to a 4.0

-Weight savings on the front susp.

-Cool factor!  Who wouldn't love a 4cyl diesel in their MJ!?

 

   You'd end up with a 25-30mpg daily-drivable COMANCHE!  Not a boring econobox or stupid modern truck loaded full of nav. systems, heated seats, power butt-scratchers, etc. (that cost ~ $20k anyways btw.)

 

 

Cons:

-cost

-complexity of the modern electronically controlled diesel and the maintenance that comes with it.  

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Yes, it is just an interesting excercise.  "More dollars than sense" I have always thought of as a bit of pejorative term.  Maybe more like "Not my cup of tea"?  It sure does not make economic sense, just like a bunch of stuff we do.  Build Stroker motors, repaint 30 year old trucks, buy big tires for our street cars/trucks.

 

Now, if I had a factory diesel Comanche or Cherokee that needed an engine replaced, I would have to very seriously plan on a VW TDI engine conversion.  It would be both cheaper and faster for me than screwing around with a broken Renault 2.1 TurboDiesel.  But then, I have a spare TDI engine in my garage with all the electronics need for it.  Now that idea would not be a good idea to someone like Rob.  To each his own.

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Yes, it is just an interesting excercise. "More dollars than sense" I have always thought of as a bit of pejorative term. Maybe more like "Not my cup of tea"? It sure does not make economic sense, just like a bunch of stuff we do. Build Stroker motors, repaint 30 year old trucks, buy big tires for our street cars/trucks.

Well said.
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You need to go over to the TDIClub and check out a few of the Toyota TDI conversions. You will find a whole lot more good information and practical solutions. You will also find a couple of Jeep TDI conversions:

 

http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=63

 

I can tell you that very few (like ZERO) of those people have $20 in a conversion. I would guess most are around $5K, including the VW they started with.

 

Pay particular attention to the first post in the Stickied Thread:

 

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=142679

 

You will find links to 6 different Jeep TDI conversions in that post.

I went through those threads some time ago.

 

Maybe I should give myself more credit, but I just don't think I could put together a conversion like this and a.) complete it; and b.) be happy with the fit&finish, serviceability, etc.

Some things I'm more prone to pay an engineer to do! Lol

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What about the Mercedes OM617 5 cyl. turbo diesel? No electronic bullsh*t. One of, if not the most reliable, longest lasting motors ever made. Thought about putting it in my Land Cruiser fj60, but feel it would be slightly underpowered due to the weight of Cruiser(almost double the weight of my MJ). Anybody out there done this swap or even looked into it?

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Weight is a problem with the 4BT.  It is between 745 and 782 lbs according to this link:  http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/4bt.html

 

Weight for the 3.3 Cummins is about 550 lbs according to this:  http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f19/cummins-4bt-3-3bt-1427878/

 

I "think" the weight on the VW Diesel is about 350 lbs.  I need to find a source.  Here it is, with A/C and Clutch 361 lbs:  http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?s=8c6ed2fa12cdc7692a82063d669707f8&p=4029144&postcount=1

 

Weight for the OM607 MB engine is about 600 lbs according to this:  http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/223218-does-anyone-know-how-much-om617-weighs.html

 

Weight for the Jeep 4.0 is around 483 to 550 lbs, depending on which source you read. Novak says 515 lbs

Novak also says the Jeep 2.5 weight is 340 lbs

 

Here is a fellow who says the Jeep 2.5, AX5 and NP 231 weight is 540 lbs:   http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?s=8c6ed2fa12cdc7692a82063d669707f8&p=4040459&postcount=6

 

If Electronic Engine Management scares you with a VW TDI, then use an older non electronic injection pump.  Perhaps a Giles SuperPump.  It has been done several hundred times.

 

Bargains are out there in the VW TDI world also.  I paid $650 for my spare TDI and that included the computer and all the engine compartment wiring.  Engine had 127K on it.

 

There are some issues with the Jeep-OM617 engine swap that require the Jeep to be lifted 2 or 3 inches.

 

This is just information and links I wanted to post.  These questions come up every so often and the discussion/misinformation starts again.

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Awesome info. I can't help but keep going back to the VW for the weight factor alone. People forget how much of a factor curb weight is when it comes to chassis wear and tear. I'm going to daily drive this thing, and as much as I'd like to justify a badass trussed high steer HP44 the economical option is to keep my disco HP30 and stock-type suspension, brakes, etc.

 

Also found that a 2002 TDI Jetta weighs almost exactly the same as a short-box MJ and the manual trans. ratios are close to the same; seems like this thing would be right at home in our trucks! especially if you could dumb it down with an old school VE pump and no electronics.

And johnj92131 is right; search "mTDI" and see how many hits come up. Giles is a big name for sure.

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