ajohnson928 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Do all MJ's have separate door and ignition keys or just the early ones? It's been decades since I had to fumble around with two keys to get in and drive my vehicle. If the later ones have one key, as I suspect, has anyone tackled a conversion before? Thoughts on doing one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirsMJ86 Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 My 91 only had one key but odd thing was, when I ordered a new door cylinder it was too small. So they either ordered the wrong part or something was odd about my truck. I never bothered fixing the problem before I sold it and just left the cylinder out of the door. You could always have a locksmith re-key everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 I'm not sure I want to know what a locksmith will charge for this but I'll stop by Monday and ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Just the early ones. Changed to one key in -- I think -- '91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I'd have to change the entire steering column (and probably more) in order to update the key. Am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I'd have to change the entire steering column (and probably more) in order to update the key. Am I right? Nope. Just change the lock cylinder. Here's the catch-22: I've gone over this with two professional locksmiths. The ones that use two keys don't use the same blank for both keys. There's more of a difference than just one having a rectangular head and the other is oval. Look at the key itself and they appear similar, but they actually aren't. It's been years since I played with this, but either the ignition key won't fit the door keyways, or the door key won't fit the ignition keyway. That's issue number 1. Issue number 2 (according to the pros) is that the door keys are 5-bit keys and the ignition uses 6-bit keys. What that means is the door key cylinder has five tumblers and the ignition has six. The key length is the same, so the spacing of the tumblers is different. I asked if there was any way to re-key either the ignition or the doors to use the same key in both. One locksmith just flat out said it's impossible. The other said he "might" be able to get it to work, but because of the different spacing the keys or the cylinders would wear out very quickly. Which means if you want a one-key vehicle, you have to bite the bullet and buy all new 91+ cylinders and keys -- or raid them from a junkyard. Don't forget the glove box, if you ever might wish to lock it. If it's for an XJ, don't forget the rear hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Thanks for saving me the trip to the locksmith. I don't think I can find a full set in the JY with the key as well so I'll probably look around for a matched set with key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 The two keys are the same as GM 2 key sets (although originally with an AMC logo on them). The single key ones use standard Chrysler keys. 1991 is when the changeover should have happened, along with the HO engine and electronic speedometer. The lock cylinder holes on the doors are different. The hole is the same size and in the same location, but the little locating tab is in the wrong spot. I can't remember if it is off 90 degrees or 180 degrees, but putting an older lock cylinder in a newer door or vice versa, you won't be able to hook up the roods to actually make it work because it is in the wrong orientation. I ran into this when I looked for the most rust free door which ended up being the newer one to replace my driver side after it met a rock wall. After piddling with it for a good number of hours I put the Chrysler cylinder back in and locked it from inside, only being able to use the key on the passenger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 mvusse, do you by any chance have pics of the disassembled parts? I'm wondering if the tab can be moved from the old cylinder to the new one and retrofitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Thanks for saving me the trip to the locksmith. I don't think I can find a full set in the JY with the key as well so I'll probably look around for a matched set with key. No, but if you get the ignition cylinder and the two door cylinders from any one-key XJ, even a half-blind locksmith can easily make up a pair of new keys to fit those cylinders. However, I wasn't aware of this: The lock cylinder holes on the doors are different. The hole is the same size and in the same location, but the little locating tab is in the wrong spot. I can't remember if it is off 90 degrees or 180 degrees, but putting an older lock cylinder in a newer door or vice versa, you won't be able to hook up the roods to actually make it work because it is in the wrong orientation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 mvusse, do you by any chance have pics of the disassembled parts? I'm wondering if the tab can be moved from the old cylinder to the new one and retrofitted The tab is in the hole of the door, and it locates in a slot on the lock cylinder. Sorry no pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyc Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Thanks for saving me the trip to the locksmith. I don't think I can find a full set in the JY with the key as well so I'll probably look around for a matched set with key. No, but if you get the ignition cylinder and the two door cylinders from any one-key XJ, even a half-blind locksmith can easily make up a pair of new keys to fit those cylinders. But are the earlier GM ignition cylinders the same size as the 91+ cylinders? I'm not sure if the later cylinder will fit into the earlier steering column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Thanks for saving me the trip to the locksmith. I don't think I can find a full set in the JY with the key as well so I'll probably look around for a matched set with key. No, but if you get the ignition cylinder and the two door cylinders from any one-key XJ, even a half-blind locksmith can easily make up a pair of new keys to fit those cylinders. But are the earlier GM ignition cylinders the same size as the 91+ cylinders? I'm not sure if the later cylinder will fit into the earlier steering column. I can't answer with certainty because I haven't worked on any early to mid-90s XJs or MJs, but consider ... it's still a GM Saginaw steering column that Jeep bought from GM. Compared to how many vehicles GM put those columns in, how many XJs and MJs were there in each year between 1991 and 1994? Do you REALLY think GM re-engineered their steering column production to accommodate an odd size cylinder from Chrysler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 1995 XJ. 1 ign lock 2 door locks 1 glove box lock 1 rear hatch lock 1 key $25 shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Take Jim's deal! That's not bad for something that's already been pulled. I'd jump on it but I have two sets of the original AMC/Jeep keys and I think being retro and all, it's pretty darn cool. The spare set of keys hadn't even been punched to put on a key ring lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Sold! I'll send a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyc Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Do you REALLY think GM re-engineered their steering column production to accommodate an odd size cylinder from Chrysler? No, I DON'T know. That why I'm kinda throwing it out there and asking. I went to a couple of sites which say that the ignition cylinders they sell don't interchange. But, of course, it's possible that they're going strictly by model years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Guess we'll find out soon if it'll fit when he gets the set from Jim lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'll be sure to let you all know. I'm less concerned with the ignition fitting than I am with solving the door cylinder rotation issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 91 through 96 Cherokee 4 door front doors are the same dimensions as our doors and are a dime a dozen in junk yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 U ain't gettin none of mine fer a dime! Unless maybe U pull it yerself!! :thumbsup: :laughin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajohnson928 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I'd really like to keep it all the same color if I can so replacing the doors will be a last resort. I'll see what I can do to modify the actuator rod or maybe switch them out from a newer door. I'll take pics and do a write up if I'm successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 91 through 96 Cherokee 4 door front doors are the same dimensions as our doors and are a dime a dozen in junk yards. How about a 2 door? I would think they would be the same but............ :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 2 door Cherokee doors are longer, to make it easier to get into the back seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 But will the lock cylinders interchange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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