streetjeep2.5 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Guys. Long 'legal stuff' post. Considering a carbed 327 (hey, streetjeep327, might as well) eventually in my manche. While I know around my area no one who inspects my vehicle will give a rip whats under the hood, if we let the govmt intrude into the vehicle area any more, it could become a problem. Below is the new (the way I understand it kind of the result of "cash for clunkers") law in Missouri. Being federally affected, bet other states are similar. Soooo ... what's your take on things? I take it IF I was to go by the letter of the law, I cannot put anything but a 2.5 in my manche. Can't even do a 4.0 because the numbers would not match what came out. Your read also? IMO we are so wrapped in in Obama Care and such things we are ignoring the small things that make life a hassle. Missouri Revised Statutes Chapter 301 Registration and Licensing of Motor Vehicles Section 301.370 August 28, 2010 Replacement of motor--procedure. 301.370. 1. Nothing in sections 301.010 to 301.440 shall be construed to prohibit the owner of a duly registered motor vehicle from removing the motor or engine from such vehicle and replacing it with a new or reconditioned motor or engine of the same make or manufacture. 2. The owner and the person removing and replacing such motor or engine shall join in an affidavit showing the number of the motor or engine removed, the date of removal, the reason for removal, and a description of the motor or engine replaced in the vehicle. 3. If the motor to be installed is a reconditioned motor, it shall bear the same number as the motor removed but shall be preceded by the symbol "RC". If the motor installed is a new motor, it shall bear a special number to be secured as provided in section 301.380. 4. The affidavit, together with the original certificate of title, shall be sent to the director of revenue at Jefferson City, Missouri, with a fee of one dollar for registering such change of motor or engine. The director of revenue shall file the affidavit and certificate in his office and shall issue and deliver a new certificate of title to the owner. 5. The owner of a motor vehicle that is identified on the appropriate Missouri certificate of ownership by a manufacturer's number other than the engine or motor number shall be exempt from the provisions of subsections 2, 3 and 4. 6. The director of revenue may adopt and enforce the rules and regulations, compatible with this chapter, that he deems necessary to properly administer this section. Missouri Revised Statutes Chapter 301 Registration and Licensing of Motor Vehicles Section 301.380 August 28, 2010 Special numbers issued, when--fee--effect--trailers, special numbers issued, when--examination required--fee. 301.380. 1. Whenever the original, manufacturer's, or other distinguishing number on any motor vehicle, trailer or motor vehicle tire has been destroyed, removed, covered, altered, defaced or is otherwise nonexistent, the director of revenue, upon application, payment of a fee of seven dollars and fifty cents, and satisfactory proof of ownership by the owner, shall issue a certificate authorizing the owner to place a special number designated by the director of revenue upon the vehicle, trailer or tire. 2. In order to properly calculate the sales tax due, in the case of a trailer which is alleged to have been made by someone who is not a manufacturer using readily distinguishable manufacturers' identifying numbers or a certificate of origin, the person seeking the special number authorized by the provisions of this section shall secure a written statement from a motor vehicle inspection station that the trailer has been examined and that it is not one made by a regular manufacturer. The superintendent of the state highway patrol shall provide such forms for inspection stations, and the person, firm, or corporation seeking the examination shall pay a regular inspection fee for the examination. The proceeds of the fee shall be distributed in the same manner as regular inspection fees are distributed. This subsection shall not apply to trailers inspected under section 301.191. 3. The director of revenue shall designate the special numbers consecutively beginning with the number one preceded by the letters "DR" and followed by the letters "Mo" for each make of motor vehicle, trailer or motor vehicle tire, or if the make be unknown, the number shall also be preceded by the letter "X". 4. When such number has been placed upon the motor vehicle or motor or engine thereof, or trailer or motor vehicle tire, it shall be the lawful number of the same for the purpose of identification, registration, and all other purposes of this chapter, and the owner may sell and transfer such property under the special number. No person shall destroy, remove, cover, alter or deface any such special number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyleag89 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Do they really think anyone will go through the trouble of notifying the state when you do a motor swap? What a joke if you ask me. :shake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I am really starting to hate this state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Talked to a shop today and they say they got to do it, don't like it, but got to do it. Now, you and me under the shade tree???? Completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 If you have emissions, do it. If not, who gives a flying squirrel. Rob L. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 How many people or even mechanics EVER see serial numbers of engines or tires to be able to register them so they can be taxed??? Especially in rust belt states!!! I'm not even sure California is that strict, but then again i could be wrong. I do know that when I was into VW's there was a big to do in California about air cooled VW engine blocks and what ones could be used for certain years as a replacement block as required to keep emissions regulations straight. The Blocks themselves had nothing to do with emissions, and I think they fought and won the right to use blocks not from their year of manufacture, and the allowed use of non numbered replacement blocks being manufactured in South America for replacement purposes. I know it doesnt apply specifically to Jeeps, but just goes to show that the system can be fought and changed. And remember what is behind all this..... The Director of REVENUE!!! Its all a money racket. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Hmmm, and my Missouri friends tell me their state government is much more lenient than KS. If I am reading that correctly, the second part of that seems to be more about vehicle titling. It states they will look at the engines serial number to ID the vehicle if another form is not there (i.e VIN). Hence why they want the replacement motor info to match the vehicle. Now that first one... I don't see where it specifies the engine SIZE or anything needs to remain the same. No two motors share the exact same serial number. What I am reading is that they want to know the serial number of the replacement motor, who did it, when, and why. They want the replacement (reconditioned or new) motor to be tagged as a non original motor. It doesn't really specify what to do if the motor you stick in is a junkyard pull. I would like to see the director of revenue locate a serial number on any greasy engine block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 I was told on the phone it is the result of federal law changes last year, and three or four times was told the junk yard is to furnish a "motor title", that being the law now. I took "If the motor to be installed is a reconditioned motor, it shall bear the same number as the motor removed but shall be preceded by the symbol RC'.", that it could have to bear the same not serial number but block part number, indicating it is the same thing, or something to identify it as "identical." Gonna find out some more. No matter what, the federal govmt and the idiotic EPA is so screwing things up for states and then us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I would like to see how they define "number" :nuts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnuck Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 It's more to do with stolen car parts than anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Ok, this morning I think I found the "loophole"! :cheers: Since the law DOESN'T say: "301.370. 1. Nothing in sections 301.010 to 301.440 shall be construed to prohibit the owner of a duly registered motor vehicle from removing the motor or engine from such vehicle and replacing it with *THE ONLY MOTOR OR ENGINE PERMITTED BY LAW TO REPLACE IT*, a new or reconditioned motor or engine of the same make or manufacture," and since the next part says "The owner and the person removing and replacing such motor or engine shall ...", I DON'T HAVE TO! :clapping: If they said anything, I could just point to this "law" and say "It did not say I have to replace it with one of the same make and manufacture. but that I am not prohibited from doing so." KEWL Better get with it before they catch this!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaekl Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 This mentality is evading all aspects of American life and is in direct conflict of what defines the USA, independent, individuality. Why at every turn are we trying to kill the free market and add more and more regulations to protect the buyer? In this case there is still a part to maintain the pollution control and keep the liability with the manufacturer. However, using the simpler approach is much easier and more effective. If you can't do the project well to pass whatever reguirements your state has, do start it. If you goof it up, it's your financial loss, no one elses. As a buyer, if you can't tell if it was a good conversion, do not buy it and buy a stock car. The election was clear that a good majority don't want a controlled society, but these regulations keep coming to 'protect' us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 state still doesn't know that the 3800 has a '96 3.8 in it. and it doesn't have anything emissions related on it.....never will, either. missouri is definitely becoming the state of misery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Why at every turn are we trying to kill the free market and add more and more regulations to protect the buyer? "We" aren't. Those who want to control the people, the socialist's/Marxist's, are. As I heard on a talk show this morning, and I paraphrase; the people bringing about this agenda are very smart, doing this incrementally. It is most of the American voters who aren't seeing it and doing something about it before it's too late. IMO, I hope enough people are fired up enough to not just get the House Majority and others to halt any more socialism, but to reverse what's already been done. If they won't, then vote them out and get those who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I'm all for putting a rebuilt motor into the MJ... if the state wants to pay for it. If they throw a fit, I'll say it was put in in WI before the truck came down here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Question: In MO, when you buy a new or used vehicle, from in or out of state, and go to get it registered, is there any inspection required other than the the safety inspection you get at Firestone? As far as I can tell my company truck has only ever been subject to the safety inspection and never been emissions tested. Maybe visual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 no varification of engine block, etc. just look at the vin and compare to title/registration, and make sure everything works. That's why I don't consider it a big deal. Even the inspectors don't care what engine is in it. They are hotrodders themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 17, 2010 Author Share Posted November 17, 2010 In my attempt to get to the real laws for Missouri, called the State Motor Vehicle Dept and they sent me to the State Police Inspection Department. Inspection dept said ever since 1992 and based upon 1990 Federal Law, Missouri Law is the engine in a vehicle can only be what was offered for it from the factory. In the case of my 87 comanche, it can legally only have a 2.5 or 4.0. In the case of a 1986 Comanche, it can legally only have a 2.5 or 2.8 (if diesel was offered, can have that). You can replace the Injection with a carb and get rid of the computer if you want. IF for any reason it ends up getting inspected by the state police, it will not pass inspection if there is anything else in it, and it cannot be licensed. The guy I talked to likes the law as little as I do, but it's da Law, man!!! Called Kansas. They don't care. I can have what I want in it. Since we were planning, it appears, on retiring toward the KC area, guess it will be in the Kansas side!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 That clears that up. Thanks for the info. And yes, KS has very few laws limiting what you can do to your vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted November 18, 2010 Author Share Posted November 18, 2010 Think I'll mount a campaign to get M :yes: :smart: :clapping: :rotfl2: :hmm: :thumbsup: issouri to be like Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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