wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I saw on Ebay just the other day and bolt on spring over kit. has anyone else seen these or used one? I would like to lift 4 or 6 inches but don't really want to go rusty's and I am having a hard time find anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 There are plenty of 4-6" kits out there, keep looking. As to welding, it's only the rear axle leaf mounts. It's super easy so just about any guy with a welder can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 I would like to avoid apring over anyway and rather to just have a set made and stay spring under... I am really worried about reliability and axle wrap with the spring over. I tried to find the kit to link it here off ebay but I no longer see it on there.. I was just curious about if anyone else had seen it, I didn't think that it looked as though it would be to safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87manche Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 rusty's is making a 4.5" leaf pack for the rear. Ask CW about it, he's got it under his deal with 33's i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 I here alot about rusty's springs fading fast and not holding up under loads. these are trucks and I prefer to carry my things out to the camping spot in the back as opposed to ON my back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I would like to avoid apring over anyway and rather to just have a set made and stay spring under... I am really worried about reliability and axle wrap with the spring over. Since a spring-over uses the same springs, and by flipping the perches the springs are mounted the same distance from the axle centerline -- why do you think doing a SOA conversion would cause any more spring wrap than you already have? I don't see how it be any different, unless you throw in a bunch of blocks after you make it SOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettM Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I would like to avoid apring over anyway and rather to just have a set made and stay spring under... I am really worried about reliability and axle wrap with the spring over. Since a spring-over uses the same springs, and by flipping the perches the springs are mounted the same distance from the axle centerline -- why do you think doing a SOA conversion would cause any more spring wrap than you already have? I don't see how it be any different, unless you throw in a bunch of blocks after you make it SOA. The leverage is being applied differently and it makes a noticeable difference. SUA doesn't apply as much twisting leverage to the leafs because the point of application is inside the half-elliptical arc, whereas with SOA the point of application is outside the half-elliptical arc. That said, SOA is only problematic when you keep the rear really light or demand lots of flex. I took a lot of measures to keep my truck wieght down and therefore stock spring packs wouldn't flex real well offroad, but if I pulled some leafs to get more flex they wouldn't control axle wrap. My final solution was linking the rear with coils, but less leafs and a traction bar would have worked too. If you wheel with a fair load in your bed you shouldn't have any problems. If you don't like Rusty's you could always get some custom Alcans or Deavers, but you will pay appropriately for the high-quality that you receive. SOA and possibly a traction bar if you need it is still the cheapest solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 I can't say that I don't like rusty's, I can opnly go by others input, because I have never purchased their products, or tested them myself. with a stock 4.0 and 33in tsl's I wonder if I would have the power or weight to cause spring wrap to bad. And correct me if I am wrong but dosen't every off roader want as much flex as they can get? I don't need to go extreme and start linking everything to the moon, just curious of the cheapest and most appropriate solution. I wouldn't mind giving out the cash for some custom alcan springs if it would be that much better then doing the spring over. Has anyone here done a spring over with moderate welding a to traction bars ever got spring wrap to the point that it made them imobile? nobody likes to leave the trail early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I went SOA and added a second main MJ leaf (with the eyes cut off) righ below the main leaf. No problems with springwrap and the packs still flex right up to the bumpstops (they'll go even further, but the bumpstops are there for a reason). As soon as I get the new longer shocks in I'll get even more. :D I do carry a fair bit of weight around with me though. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 pete what size tires do you run and what springs to you by to give you the same lift in the front. also with that about (i am assuming 4 to 5 inches of lift) what else is required in the means of steering arms, and trac bars... excuse me if I use the wrong terminoligy, or don't know how to spell it. but with my previous builds I did not have to deal with coils in the front (blazer had leafs also). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 this was my wheeler I know she's a little rough but I had alot of good times in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 the straps were not permanent and latter replaced by a 2x6 wood fram that held it all together. I plan to use what's left of this truck for parts for a future project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 The tires are 33s and the springs are stock MJ with an extra leaf throw in. My front stuff is all custom to adapt the Ford axle so it's of little use to anyone else, but if you go to the rubiconexpress.com site, you'll see what all is required to lift the front properly. Don't forget about gearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettM Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I can't say that I don't like rusty's, I can opnly go by others input, because I have never purchased their products, or tested them myself. with a stock 4.0 and 33in tsl's I wonder if I would have the power or weight to cause spring wrap to bad. And correct me if I am wrong but dosen't every off roader want as much flex as they can get? I don't need to go extreme and start linking everything to the moon, just curious of the cheapest and most appropriate solution. I wouldn't mind giving out the cash for some custom alcan springs if it would be that much better then doing the spring over. Has anyone here done a spring over with moderate welding a to traction bars ever got spring wrap to the point that it made them imobile? nobody likes to leave the trail early. I am going to make some assumptions about your wheeling in KY, I only had serious spring wrap issues with 35s on California rock-crawling trails where there is high-traction, slow crawling, and lots of torque. My understanding of east-of-the-rockies wheeling is that the few rocks that exist are generally slippery. Without high-traction situations spring wrap won't be a problem. Just do the spring over. Throw an extra leaf in if you pack a lot of stuff. Wheel it. If you notice spring wrap (and I doubt you will) add a traction bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 You could always revert back to SUA and buy custom springs later. As long as your current leafs are in good shape, going SOA only involves the cost of weding perches on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 I reckon you fellas are right... it can't really hurt anything to try it.... Thanks for your help. I will notify when I start to actualy get time ot work on mine... Hey pete what rear axel are you running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Well Brett.. I have to disagree with you on the traction situation on the east coast. Paragon is a granite type rock and huge traction can be found, and lost quickly, Tellico is basically slick rock. Really smooth, and traction can be tricky to find, but when yiou have it... it is great. I am running a set Of Alcans on my rig, and they worked great till I chopped the rig up.. The 4 link and coilovers are coming when time and money allow. Springwrap is a combination of wheel speed and lack of traction, so if you are a right foot wheeler it coud be an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Hey pete what rear axel are you running? Ford 9" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feerocknok Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 with a stock 4.0 and 33in tsl's I wonder if I would have the power or weight to cause spring wrap to bad. As far as power, I have Maybe 65 horses in my Yota, and I Can spring wrap it like hell. I also have close to no weight in it though, and am unsure if that is a cause, or if it has an influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Hey, Pete -- About that extra main leaf: I've done that second main leaf on XJs (as have several other people). With an old XJ and an old pair of donor springs I grossed 1-1/4" of lift -- most people seem to gain about 1-1/2". I'm looking at doing the same thing as a budget way to upgrade a standard MJ to a metric ton sort of rating. But I only want additional capacity, I don't want lift. Did you do the extra leaf at the same time you did the SOA, or did you add the leaf as a separate operation that would allow you to quantify how much lift it produced? I have available to me both an MJ spring pack and a couple of XJ spring packs. I'm trying to decide which to use as donor AALs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Unfortunately no. I did it all at once while the truck was still on the stands. But I may be able to help you out a little in the near future. While my 90 MJ is on stands, I plan to swap the 88 leaf packs into it, then build a new set for the 88 using the rustfree leafs I got in Florida. That's the plan anyways. It won't be a perfect experiment though, mostly because the 88's packs have been thoroughly used in the last couple years and they are made from 2wd MJ packs, but we'll see what happens. Wait a minute, are you really fretting over a lousy inch? :nuts: Just do it! :fool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettM Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Eagle, to gain spring-rate without gaining lift you want to add a leaf that has the same unweighted arch as your leaf pack does under weight. I think an XJ leaf should be about right in an MJ pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Eagle, to gain spring-rate without gaining lift you want to add a leaf that has the same unweighted arch as your leaf pack does under weight. I think an XJ leaf should be about right in an MJ pack. That's exactly what I was thinking. I just need to dismember one of the XJ packs and hold the main leaf under the MJ to see how close the arch is. I think it's going to work. Yeah, Pete, I am fretting over a lousy inch. Probably 98% of the time I drive one of the MJs the box is empty, but when I load it up ... I load it up. I really don't want the back any higher than stock for that 98% of the time, but I do want the extra load capacity for the other 2% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jage Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Just change your shackles any time you want to put something in the bed. :rotfl2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparnocar Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 how much lift will a SOA give you using stock springs and the stock perches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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