AnotherOldJeepGuy

If am understanding a little better, I believe what I did this morning is not "Indexing", but "Index Checking." In the video I posted on setting TDC, that guy's fingers had to be much longer that mine, there was no way I could get any finger or thumb in there to check for compression v exhaust cycle, but I am willing to bet until someone tells me otherwise that if I captured the exhaust in the images below, the engine would not be running at all. So I am assuming what I captured is TDC #1 combustion. What I do know is that the notch is exactly aligned with "0". What I do not know for 100% certainty is that I am at 100% TDC combustion. I don't have a dowel or anything similar yet to put in the cylinder and try to confirm this is the point at which the piston is completely at the top. I used a long zip-tie but since it was flexible there is some amount of ambiguity. But I do know it is close. Image Top Right shows where the rotor is. The pic alone seems only somewhat useful. (I now see the point of cutting up a dist for this check, I wish I still had the one I took off in Jan). However I scratched a pointer to the center of the rotor contact and put the dist cap back on, the bottom pics show there is not a 100% alignment. My expertise doesn't include knowing how far off it would have to be for this to cause a problem. An of course I have now way of knowing if this amount of misalignment has been there since I bought the Jeep in 1990, or if it has only been there since the "maneuver incident". I am going to get a dowel or a long fireplace match, or something stiff but not scratchy and try to confirm if the notch at 0 is really TDC. Since I don't believe I have any way to make my fingers longer, I am going to stop at the local hardware store and see if there happens to be any threaded pipe on the shelf that just happens to be the same size and thread as the spark plug so I can move the hole in the block out to where I can actually reach it with a finger and then I can also confirm this is actually TDC combustion rather than exhaust. If there isn't perhaps that is the invention I can use to fund my retirement. So the questions to the experts is obviously, do the pictures indicate an issue that MUST be corrected, SHOULD be corrected, is an OPTIONAL correction, or is this an alignment within the range that the ECU "should" manage it fine as is. And of course if this is not acceptable, would it account for my engine issue?

Here is a video that seems to show T13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMf56Lv5L98

Yeah. I sure wish my electric fan came out that smoothly, mine is a much tighter fit.

Congrats getting home, what a "fun" trip. Now you will get it fixed up right. I had an overheat trip once, driving from Texas to WV in the middle of summer. Stopped at a parts store in nowhere ARK and replace the thermostat with some borrowed, very used tools from the shop. Unfortunately that was not the problem, and I ended up driving the rest of the trip in the middle of the summer with the heater on full to get the extra cooling from that, the Jeep didn't overheat but the driver sure did. Problem was the radiator and got one in WV so I could use my AC on the trip back, much better!

This makes it look way easier than it seemed in words.. https://youtu.be/olxXzyzMF-4

If the timing mark is the mark on the balancer, wouldn't the "next time the timing mark shows up", which I am only guessing mean shows up lined up with the line(s) on the block, be visible just the same with or without the plug in? Not sure what difference the plug being in or out is on if the timing marks show up, so yeah, more confusing bar reached . I guess the day all this timing stuff was taught during my Advanced Shade Tree Mechanic class I must have been out. Either way it has hit mid 90s out in my driveway so I am done for the day out there, I'm too old to work out in the sun! I'll start again in the morning.

Unfortunately that 12 is the 12 of 12&13 I don't believe I understand well enough to do. . I'll go do some youtube searching and maybe find some examples. Pretty sure I can't get my finger or thumb down in the plug hole, definitely not my thumb, while at the same time turn the engine at the balancer bolt with the other hand!

Yep, that's the one!

Is this possible without stepping through tips 12 and 13 which I still don't believe I understand well enough to do.

That was one thought I had, well in my terminology it was could I have gotten the timing off. I know there is the dist index post, that I have read many times now and don't believe I understand it good enough to do it. So if one had a timing light, could one tell if this was off with that?

I'll put this on the near term todo list then.

You could always just leave the tstat out until you get home.

I would assume you could cut them with a dremel and a cutting wheel, or some other similar approach.

You and me both!

Ah, so it sounds like if I did bypass it, nothing bad would happen (it would not make it run differently) Remaining questions still out there....

Here's a new thought for comment by the experts. A friend at the gym when I told him my story, including what kicked it off and all the stuff done to date, said "are you sure you cat converter isn't damaged?". I asked what it might be about this that could cause issues like mine, he said if a piece broke inside by the jolt it could limit airflow. This makes as much sense to me with my degree of expertise as anything else that has been looked as so far. And it is known that after my maneuver my muffler was broken at the input pipe, it would not be a stretch to think the jolt that did that might have damaged the 36 year old converter. What's the thoughts? What would be the best way to check this? If it was damaged, what would happen if I just bypassed it, I have no inspection requirement.

Great, and that makes sense. I'm going to assume for now at least this alignment has not changed since before whatever it was that happened, happened.

Yeah, I have read through those instructions about 10 times, but I get lost at about step 7 (well assuming I could get past Tip 12, and not very confident on that either) Given this, is there any logic to the thought that what I did could have changed this?

Took Jeep in to a second shop for more diagnostic assistance, this is a shop I used before for a muffler, and the primary mechanic has been there for 30 years, so he actually has seen this engine. I let him know all the stuff that has been done, and also that at least one goal was assistance looking for vacuum leaks. He pointed out two things before smoke testing. One was the injector harness connectors looked corroded and not very tight. (This could relate to the REM readings about injectors). He actually was able to pull them off without loosening the retainers, I don't know that you should be able to do that, but he did with no trouble. He recommended they be replaced. Rock Auto sells them for about $8 each. The other was that he found one of my new plug wires arcing at the plug end boot to a vacuum hose (the one that goes to the heater control valve) that decided to rest next to it. So he suggested that wire also be replaced. My wires are new, I suspect I poked a hole trying to remove them when I pulled the plugs out a week ago, but still I guess I'll replace that one. I find it hard to believe either of these failures are a result of the maneuver incident, but since I have not given up that my truck will survive this yet, so might as well fix what needs fixed whether it has anything to do with the bigger problem or not, particularly if they are fairly easy and inexpensive. Then on to the smoke test. He introduced the smoke at the port just in front of the throttle body, the one that normally connects to the hardpipe going to the back of the valve cover. We let the smoke build up for a while and the only place any smoke came out was the airbox. My assumption is that location is OK, I am assuming the airbox is not expected to be completely air tight. The mechanic didn't seem to be concerned about the smoke there. We saw zero smoke anywhere else. He raised the truck up so we could also look from the bottom, and still no smoke. So unless the smoke entry point used is not valid, there does not appear to be any leak in either manifold or the gasket. I asked about the potential of timing being knocked off by my truck-killing maneuver. The plan is for me to go forward with the items above first, then once they are complete and if they don't fix the issue, I'll take it back and he will break out the timing light and check the timing. My guess is, I will be taking it back for that timing check, but if the items identified here do fix it, I'll take the win. @Gojira94, I'd like to hang on to the REM until I put on the new injector harness connectors if you don't need it back sooner. Would be nice to see if the INF errors disappear.

Tried the reset procedure, no change

I think I kinda get it. The throttle "opens a big hole" on purpose to the outside air and that would cause the vacuum to drop. I didn't think about that. I tried plugging off the line to the brake booster back on April 10 (hard to believe this problem has now been in place for almost 2 months) and nothing changed, but some improvements have been made since then and maybe it's time to repeat that test.

Remember the vacuum plug? It is still there. So I decided to see how much different the vacuum reading would be if I connected the hose back. At idle it was ~17 (I captured it at 14.5-15.5 earlier with the plug in place). This isn't much different so it seems to say that I don't have a vacuum leak in the lines supplied by this hose. The REM doc says opening the throttle should lower the vacuum? This seems backwards to me, I would expect the vacuum to increase. Case in Point: In the past, from time to time a crack would develop in the vac line that goes into the firewall and supplies vacuum to control cabin air flow, and when it started to develop a crack, the airflow would switch in part at least to the defrost, and at that point, increasing my engine RPM, the airflow would return to the cabin vents suggesting vacuum had been temporarily restored (increased) by the higher RPM. So this sounds like more RPM increased vacuum rather than lowering it. And also right now, part of my problem that resulted from "the maneuver" is my power brakes are loosing assist, more-so at low RPM, that is to say increasing RPM restores brake assist at least some degree, which again suggests more throttle = more vacuum not less. So I don't understand this at all!!

Thanks, I have been avoiding any time on the highway but it might be worth it to go do this at least once. It doesn't really mention how long a battery disconnect might be to require this, so the assumption would be I guess that any amount of time counts.

OK I finished my homework before the heat come back outside. Pulled 3 lugs at the block ground point, plus the primary ground cable. The primary ground cable is relatively new and still looked clean, the other three were not terrible but for sure have been improved now. I scuffed them clean with sandpaper, also the point of contact with the block. Then gave them a bath of contact cleaner. After the cleaner dried I put it back together. I cycled about 6 times turning key to RUN and OFF, checking codes at each RUN position. I saw I3 no ground detected the first time, then every time after that I saw "No Injector 12V” + “KO Tests Not Run”. I did try wiggling the connection at I3 and the harness, that didn't change anything. I never saw any complaints other that I3 during this limited test. I started up and watched the Knock count, first letting it idle for a minute or so. I did see it toggle to 1 and back to 0 occasionally at idle. Then I bumped it up to around 2500 RPM, +/`100 I guess and I saw the knock counter report from mid-20 to mid-40. According to the REM doc, 10-100 is normal at that RPM so based on that I assume my results are OK, and also I am assuming without any way to know otherwise, the knock sensor is reading correctly. After this just for grins I disconnected the battery for about 30m for an ECU reset then repeated everything above after the ground cleaning. After the ECU reset, switch between OFF and RUN (not starting) about 6 times. Never saw the Injector ground open reported, but I did still see "No Injector 12V” + “KO Tests Not Run”. Once I saw “KO Tests Not Run” by itself and once or twice I saw ECU report No Errors. Then I started up and looked for knocks. Results very similar although the knock count seemed to be a little lower hitting upper 30s. But I realize this is a sampling of knock counts so I don't know that "a little less" means much especially since it is still in the range noted as normal by the REM docs. For future reference, how long is really needed for an ECU reset? When I disconnect battery I have been disconnecting both cables and shorting them together help bleed off everything.

Gotcha. So at locations 1-3 I have 1 old and 2 new injectors. There is one thing unique with 1-3, the ones that have from time to time thrown the fault, they are probably the ones farthest from the ground lug based on how the wires are routed. I'll try the knock test above then clean up that ground connection, and see what happens. Probably be tomorrow morning cause here in Texas it's already too dang hot by about noon for me to do a lot of work out in my driveway!