500-comanche Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I am one of those fortunate SOBs that has a factory D44 in the rear of my mj. It has four leafs, so I know it is one of the heavy payload trucks. :brows: However, it has 3.07 gears, which makes no sense to me that it would be set up as a heavy hauler with such tall gears. :nuts: My ? is, can't I take the running gear out of almost any d44 from any other truck, be it Chevy, dodge, etc. and swap it in the MJ? I called the u-pick and they said they had 4.11s for a D35, but isn't the carrier different? Admittedly, I have VERY limitted knowledge of running gears, so any edumication you all have to share is much appreciated 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I need to swap my gears too, so I've been reading up on it..... Its pretty time consuming. setting the preload on the pinion seems like it will be the hardest part. I'd like to know this info too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocoJeeper Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I picked up the book titled "Differential" by Randy's Ring and Pinion. 320+ pages of very informative axle id, re-gearing, rebuilding and modification info. I've yet to do my axles, but its given me enough confidence (now I just need to find the patience) to do it myself. The only reason i'd advise you not to do it yourself is if you don't have the tools. To start out your going to need around $500 (at least) in tools. Some are basic hand tools but other's like bearing drivers and bearing pullers are pretty specific. I have 4 axles to re-gear, so its worth it. If you only have one or two it may be more cost effective to pay a shop to do it (prices do vary dramatically from shop to shop though). Good luck and God Bless, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 There are 4 things I would gladly pay a pro to do for me: rebuild an automatic, machining on an engine block, welding on items with which my life is at stake, and setting up gears in an axle. The best advise I can give is shop around as much as you can for prices, experience and warranties. If the gears are set up wrong it can be disastrous. Make sure you use someone that will stand by their work. Oh, and if you're going to regear, don't skimp out on the ratio. Deeper is better. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I for one don't see the huge difficulty in setting up gears, or the huge persona that seems to follow it, that you should only have a professional do it. :bowdown: Well those professionals had to start somewhere right??.. We all had to start somewhere, so whats a better place to start than right here? Yes you can set them up wrong, and have premature failure, but that can be true for most other jobs. Tightening your wheel bearings too tight, not properly installing your ball joints, or even incorrectly installing your brakes, etc.. the list can go on. But if you educate yourself before hand as locojeeper has done, you really can't go wrong. Yes you may need to buy some new tools (used for that matter) but, I for one won't say no for an excuse to buy tools!!! And if this is not under a huge time constraint (has to get you to work on Monday) then why not give it a try. Realistically, you can pick up the most required tools for under $100. I bought my dial in.lb torque wrench off ebay for $50. And a dial indicator and mag base can be found for $30. And then buy your self a cheap caliper or micrometer for $20, and your off to the races. Yeah bearing presses and pullers are nice, but not needed. You can rent most of what you need, and then you can even take your bearings and carriers to a local shop and have them press them on for you. And a good trick for setting up the gears, is make yourself setup bearings by honing the ID's larger so they slide on. Do all your setups with those, and then get the shop to press on the new ones when done. But really, the most basic breakdown of a gear setup is ensuring your pinion depth is correct, your carrier side to side movement is correct, and then a visual comparison of the wear pattern. And thats basically it (of course there is a lot if detail in between those lines) I'm with Locojeeper, in that I have 4 axles than need re-gearing. So I figured I'd do it myself. And really, if I only had one axle to re-gear, I would probably do it myself as well. Only because I've never done it before and love to learn new things. And an added bonus to this, is once you get a couple setups under your belt, you can then set them up for friends, and then you can charge others for this service. Its really a win-win situation. And Pete, I see in your list Machining and Engine Block. Well I agree with you there as it does require big expensive machines, which most of us couldnt afford anyway. But your list doesnt say, assembling an engine. Well I would consider setting up gears on par with rebuilding and engine. I bet if you give it a try, you will really impress yourself Just my thoughts... Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 Can I tell without tearing it apart if my D35 has a crush sleeve or shims?? I have everything you listed except the in" # wrench so do I just go to the dealer for the replacement bearings and parts or where? Napa, or Advanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Can I tell without tearing it apart if my D35 has a crush sleeve or shims?? I have everything you listed except the in" # wrench so do I just go to the dealer for the replacement bearings and parts or where? Napa, or Advanced? http://www.drivetrain.com/dana35.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 ...so do I just go to the dealer for the replacement bearings and parts or where? Napa, or Advanced? Your best bet is to purchase a Master Install kit from Yukon or some other manuf., as they will have everything you need to completely install a gear set. Your local parts store should be able to get that for you, or you can find some real good deals online and on ebay. HTH Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Can I tell without tearing it apart if my D35 has a crush sleeve or shims?? I have everything you listed except the in" # wrench so do I just go to the dealer for the replacement bearings and parts or where? Napa, or Advanced? http://www.drivetrain.com/dana35.html Thanks :cheers: Your best bet is to purchase a Master Install kit from Yukon or some other manuf., as they will have everything you need to completely install a gear set. Your local parts store should be able to get that for you, or you can find some real good deals online and on ebay. HTH Ryan Think I read somewhere that Randy's ring and pinion owns yukon. I don't have to replace the pinion bearings do I? What am I looking for to tell if they do need replaced? I could also get away with rtv instead of gasket too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 ...so do I just go to the dealer for the replacement bearings and parts or where? Napa, or Advanced? Your best bet is to purchase a Master Install kit from Yukon or some other manuf., as they will have everything you need to completely install a gear set. Your local parts store should be able to get that for you, or you can find some real good deals online and on eBay. HTH Ryan PARTS WISE, everything you'll need. You STILL need the knowledge and expertise as well as job specific tools. THEN you'll be all set!! ;) CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 PARTS WISE, everything you'll need. You STILL need the knowledge and expertise as well as job specific tools. THEN you'll be all set!! ;) CW I guess I'm going to dig into it... I mean if its not 100% correct then I'll have to do it again until it is..... **for future reference: [*:1mdm4ymi] Cover Bolt Ft. Lbs. 30-40[*:1mdm4ymi] Pinion Brg. Preload In. Lbs 15-35[*:1mdm4ymi] Pinion Brg. Preload In. Lbs 8-14 Used[*:1mdm4ymi] Ring Gear Backlash .005-.008[*:1mdm4ymi] Ring Gear Bolt to case Ft. Lbs. 70-89[*:1mdm4ymi] Side Brg. Caps Ft. Lbs. 47-67 [*:1mdm4ymi] Ring Gear Diameter 7.562"[*:1mdm4ymi] 8 3/8" X 24 RH Threaded Bolts[*:1mdm4ymi] PINION Diameter 1.406", 26 Spline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Think I read somewhere that Randy's ring and pinion owns yukon. I don't have to replace the pinion bearings do I? What am I looking for to tell if they do need replaced? I could also get away with rtv instead of gasket too right? Thats funny, cause I heard Yukon wasn't actually a manufacturer of gears, but more of a packager. In that, they get gears and bearings, etc. from a couple different sources, and just package it in kits under their name. But rumours are like A-holes.. everyone has one.. :eek: I would say, while in your in there, replace everything!!!.. don't skimp out to save a few bucks, as it will just come back to bite you down the road at the worst possible time. And yeah RTV works just fine.. But usually, if you get a master install kit, it will come with a gasket already. HTH Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Thats funny, cause I heard Yukon wasn't actually a manufacturer of gears, but more of a packager. In that, they get gears and bearings, etc. from a couple different sources, and just package it in kits under their name. But rumours are like A-holes.. everyone has one.. :eek: I would say, while in your in there, replace everything!!!.. don't skimp out to save a few bucks, as it will just come back to bite you down the road at the worst possible time. And yeah RTV works just fine.. But usually, if you get a master install kit, it will come with a gasket already. HTH Ryan Sound advise. Thanks,, so is the d35 c-clipped? I have a good idea on whats going to happen, just confused about the pinion preload. Now let me get this right(i hope) to set the pinion preload I need 8-14 in lbs and the yoke is something like 250 ft lbs. confusing part is the pinion nut is used to set the preload,,, but when you tighten the yoke isn't it the pinion nut tightened?? So what pinion nut do i tighten?? Is there a ridge on the yoke that just keeps the yoke from tightening the preload more? I mean thats what I have in my head so do I just use the the pinion nut on the pinion without the yoke?? This is the only part of doing this I don't quite GET..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Assemble it just like it will be when it's put together, just leave out the pinion seal and reuse the old pinion nut if its ok. Once preload is set remove the yoke install the new seal and reassemble it using the new nut. Not all D35's are C-clip axles you'll have to pull your cover to see what you have. Use good high temp RTV instead of a gasket I use grey mopar without any problems. I also use 75w-140 synthetic gear lube. The stock pinion is probably marked to show how far off it is so it gets shimmed right. If your new pinion is marked just change the shims by the difference between the two. The if the marking is +.002 on your old pinion and the new one is marked -.001 you would add .003 to get the correct pinion depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well, (as I remember) the MJ D35 will not be C-Clip. As for pinion bearing pre-load. From my informational experience, - As TNT said, Completely assemble the pinion with new bearings and shims for the correct depth, and new crush sleeve, minus the seal - Then install the old pinion nut, and torque to the required 250 ft-lbs to crush the sleeve. Once crushed, remove the old nut and install the new nut with loctite and seal. - I would say torque the new nut to about 200ft-lbs and then using your dial torque wrench, rotate the pinion and read the in-lbs required to keep the pinion turning (do not count the initial reading as you also have to overcome the initial friction to turn the pinion) -Then keep torquing the pinion nut in 10-15ft-lb increments and measuring the in-lbs it requires to turn the pinion each time . Keep doing this until you reach the 8-14 in-lbs range. -Then your pretty much done. For some added security, you can also stake the pinion nut into the pinion as well (only if it has the thin flange that would allow for staking) HTH Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500-comanche Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yikes! Well I understood a bit of what you all said. I now realize that this is 10X more complicated than I first thought. I would still like to attempt this someday. Fortunately, I know a retired mechanic who spent 30 years working for WA state as a master mechanic and has forgotten more than most mechanics will ever know. I am sure that he can answer this question, but I will ask you guys (again). Can I use the running gears out of a newer rig with a D44 and slightly used gears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Okay, how much newer are you thinking?.. Because (correct me if I'm wrong) the new rubicon axles use different gear sets than the old common D44's.. But yes, you can use used gears in your setup. But when using used gears, its best to use all the old shims and basically match the old setup to your new setup... Because, the actual axle housings are pretty easy to machine from the factory, so their tolerance are usually pretty consistent from one axle to the next. Whereas, R&P machining is a lot more difficult, as well as matching the pinion to each ring gear has some room for dimension variations. So start with the old setup as your starting point and then make slight adjustments from there. Also, I just remembered, when setting up the pattern for the used gears, you want to be concerned with the coast side of the gear rather than the drive side for new gears. HTH Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Assemble it just like it will be when it's put together, just leave out the pinion seal and reuse the old pinion nut if its ok. Once preload is set remove the yoke install the new seal and reassemble it using the new nut. Not all D35's are C-clip axles you'll have to pull your cover to see what you have. Use good high temp RTV instead of a gasket I use grey mopar without any problems. I also use 75w-140 synthetic gear lube. The stock pinion is probably marked to show how far off it is so it gets shimmed right. If your new pinion is marked just change the shims by the difference between the two. The if the marking is +.002 on your old pinion and the new one is marked -.001 you would add .003 to get the correct pinion depth. The mark your talking about is it with a grease marker, scribe, or wear marks? I'm thinking it is the mark on the pinion gear face maybe? I'm defiantly going run redline or similar synthetic oil. I guess while I have everything pulled apart I should replace the axle bearings and seals too huh.... Does the d35 have inner and outer seals, and how hord is it to replace the axle bearings? Well, (as I remember) the MJ D35 will not be C-Clip. As for pinion bearing pre-load. From my informational experience, - As TNT said, Completely assemble the pinion with new bearings and shims for the correct depth, and new crush sleeve, minus the seal - Then install the old pinion nut, and torque to the required 250 ft-lbs to crush the sleeve. Once crushed, remove the old nut and install the new nut with loctite and seal. - I would say torque the new nut to about 200ft-lbs and then using your dial torque wrench, rotate the pinion and read the in-lbs required to keep the pinion turning (do not count the initial reading as you also have to overcome the initial friction to turn the pinion) -Then keep torquing the pinion nut in 10-15ft-lb increments and measuring the in-lbs it requires to turn the pinion each time . Keep doing this until you reach the 8-14 in-lbs range. -Then your pretty much done. For some added security, you can also stake the pinion nut into the pinion as well (only if it has the thin flange that would allow for staking) HTH Ryan I thought you either had a crush sleeve or spacer and shims?? I'd rather use the spacer and shim instead of the crush sleeve.. That way if I don't get the pinion height right the first time I can redo it without having wasted a crush sleeve... Is that right?? Oh and 1 more thing what size is the pinion nut? :offtopic: :mad: Sorry man I completely hi jacked your thread...... :nanner: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regger Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The mark your talking about is it with a grease marker, scribe, or wear marks? I'm thinking it is the mark on the pinion gear face maybe? I'm defiantly going run redline or similar synthetic oil. I guess while I have everything pulled apart I should replace the axle bearings and seals too huh.... Does the d35 have inner and outer seals, and how hord is it to replace the axle bearings? The mark is a scribed mark on the face of the pinion gear. I thought you either had a crush sleeve or spacer and shims?? I'd rather use the spacer and shim instead of the crush sleeve.. That way if I don't get the pinion height right the first time I can redo it without having wasted a crush sleeve... Is that right?? Oh and 1 more thing what size is the pinion nut? No, you either have a crush sleeve, or a spacer, but all pinions need shims. As that is how you adjust the pinion depth. The crush sleeve is there to maintain pressure/preload on the bearings. I believe the nut socket size is 1-1/8" HTH Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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