Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I talked about this a while ago and never got back to it, but the short story is a while ago when trying to get my ac working, i had to replace one of the lines up by the blower motor and such because it had a hole worn thru. After that, we tested for pressure and it held, also held a vacuum. About halfway during the first bottle of freeze 12 it randomly burst somewhere and leaked all the freon out. Never could figure out what it was and never got back to figuring it out. Fast forward to now, I had a random thought. When I first got my comanche, the radiator and everything forward of it needed replaced bc it hit a deer. I just took the radiator and everything from my 96 XJ, including the condensor. With that condensor being from an r134a system, I wonder if thats the issue, and I'm kinda on here to ask if that might be it before I try to get those fittings off. I can't remember if the orings are on the line side, or the condensor fitting side. BUT, if those orings are the 134a style and are wrong, would that maybe burst during a first charge, or just sorta slowly leak over time kinda thing? One last thing to consider, that condensor was just kinda sitting around outside in the elements for a few days maybe weeks, it ain't like it came off the XJ and went onto the MJ. Is the condensor or any of the orings one of those ac components that cannot stay out and exposed to air for any longer than necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglescout526 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Personally, I would never ever use any AC components exposed to the elements for an unknown amount of time(even though I used an evap but havent had any ill effects.) If youre going back to R12 based set up, you will need new O-rings, from my understanding, the 134 o-rings should work just fine but if you havent serviced all the o-rings, it is recommended that you should since the system has been discharged and exposed. Does your Freeze 12 set up the same as R12? If so you might have oils mixing with the 134 condenser if any oils were still left in it. Mineral oil and PAG don't mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 I have no clue if the freeze 12 was "set up" the same as r12, it was just way easier to find than r12 and I assumed it was the same. My intentions are to just try and fix the r12 system if I can w minimal work and money, because I still have 2 cans of freeze 12 that haven't been used. If I can't get it to work with minimal effort and money then I'm just gonna do a r134a swap, since its so much easier and cheaper to find r134a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglescout526 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Ok, a quick google showed me that that stuff is R12 and also worth a quick buck too believe it or not so you must have some old cans of that stuff. Anyways, the system needs to have two things, 1.) mineral oil in the system for R12 to flow with and 2.) new O-rings all around. I think most modern-day AC o-rings can be used for either 12 or 134. Replace the o-rings, double check that the condenser is free and clear of PAG oil, replace the dryer if that hasnt been done as that is essentially your 'filter' for the whole AC system and you had it exposed to the elements for who knows how long. Has the system been converted to 134 before going back to 12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 How many orings are there and how hard is that to replace all of them. Also, no it is the original r12 system that came with the truck, other than the condenser which was from a 1996 cherokee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I'm pretty sure 96 used a different condenser as they used the newer style line connector. But I could be mistaken. Yes you need to flush everything out, it's something like 8 o-rings. Anything with a flat bolt on connection will have a o ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 I kind of hope it is a different style condenser with different connectors, because that would finally explain why everything was fine then it suddenly released pressure. I don't think I mentioned it before but right after it all leaked out, we tested it again and it seemed fine, but obviously we weren't gonna put more freon in. I was like 14 or something when I put that condenser on, and I remember those connectors being especially a pain, so maybe they are slightly different threads or I just messed them up somehow to the point where they sorta held pressure until a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglescout526 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Ouch. If the threads are messed up, it really won’t hold pressure. Cause the system has to be able to withstand a great amount of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Yea, that will be the first thing I check when I get back around to A/C, planning on starting to install long arms later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I would take everything apart and check/clean the threads. All it takes is one blown o-ring, and it is possible for an o-ring to seem fine at low pressure, but leak at operating pressure. Go to Harbor Freight and get the HNBR o-ring kit, that has all the different sizes you need. As far as I know the HNBR seals work with r12 too, the main reason for using them when using r134 is because r134 operates at higher pressures than r12. Freeze 12 is not r12, it's just a HCFC that is compatible with r12. The condensers are cheap on Rockauto, I just got an UAC for $60. The discharge and suction lines are the only ones I could find replacements for, but I was able to re use all my lines. If you do need the liquid or vapor lines, they have to be custom made. Replacing the drier and expansion valve is the bare minimum when the system has been open to the atmosphere for an extended period. The next time you fill it, put some UV dye in so you can find the leak with a black light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Oh yea one more question, what about leak dyes. I'm guessing they have r12 and r134a versions, can I just charge a bottle of dye into mine or is it not going to work since its basically empty right now? Also, does it really matter if its r12 or r134a since mines empty anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, keeponjeepinon said: I would take everything apart and check/clean the threads. All it takes is one blown o-ring, and it is possible for an o-ring to seem fine at low pressure, but leak at operating pressure. Go to Harbor Freight and get the HNBR o-ring kit, that has all the different sizes you need. As far as I know the HNBR seals work with r12 too, the main reason for using them when using r134 is because r134 operates at higher pressures than r12. Freeze 12 is not r12, it's just a HCFC that is compatible with r12. The condensers are cheap on Rockauto, I just got an UAC for $60. The discharge and suction lines are the only ones I could find replacements for, but I was able to re use all my lines. If you do need the liquid or vapor lines, they have to be custom made. Replacing the drier and expansion valve is the bare minimum when the system has been open to the atmosphere for an extended period. The next time you fill it, put some UV dye in so you can find the leak with a black light. Ok so check the condenser threads, get oring kit and replace all of them, buy new drier and expansion valve, and use UV dye to find leak. Am I missing anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Oh wait, theres an 87 MJ I should be getting soon when the guy finally is ready to sell it, and it has as far as I'm aware all the working A/C parts. No clue if the A/C works on it, but I'll give it a test. If it holds pressures but doesn't blow cold because its empty, then I'm just gonna swap over as many components to mine as I can. If that doesn't work then I'll start buying new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I bought a bottle of PAG oil that had dye in it, I'm sure they have mineral oil with the same. You can also buy dye on its own and add it, I don't think it cares what refrigerant you add it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 About oil, I'm aware that the system in general needs oil, but I have no clue as to ester or mineral or PAG and what they do. I thought I heard somewhere that oil kinda sits in the compressor so unless you've had a system dry and open to the atmosphere for a while, you don't rly need to add oil. Can you clear this up any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Warren99 said: About oil, I'm aware that the system in general needs oil, but I have no clue as to ester or mineral or PAG and what they do. I thought I heard somewhere that oil kinda sits in the compressor so unless you've had a system dry and open to the atmosphere for a while, you don't rly need to add oil. Can you clear this up any? PAG is for r134, mineral is for r12, and ester is compatible with both, usually used when you don't want to clean the entire system when converting to r134. Some oil stays in the compressor, but it is held in suspension in the refrigerant throughout the system. Depending on what component you replace/how much refrigerant you lost, you have to add oil. When in doubt, flush everything and add the normal amount of oil. Too much oil reduces the efficiency of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, keeponjeepinon said: PAG is for r134, mineral is for r12, and ester is compatible with both, usually used when you don't want to clean the entire system when converting to r134. Some oil stays in the compressor, but it is held in suspension in the refrigerant throughout the system. Depending on what component you replace/how much refrigerant you lost, you have to add oil. When in doubt, flush everything and add the normal amount of oil. Too much oil reduces the efficiency of the system. Ok thank you that was very helpful. How do you typically flush a system? And for testing purposes, is it bad to run a system with low oil for a little bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, Warren99 said: Ok thank you that was very helpful. How do you typically flush a system? And for testing purposes, is it bad to run a system with low oil for a little bit? There is flush solvent that you blow through the system, but it's hard to find right now. I ended up flushing each line individually with non chlorinated brake cleaner (low residue), and flushed the evaporator with the 1 can of aerosol ac flush that I was able to find. Running a compressor with low oil risks blowing it, just like running an engine with no oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglescout526 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Compressed air can help clear it out the system or a vacuum. As for the compressor like keeponjeepinon said, you’re running a risk with low oil, now it won’t blow but the compressor will seize and probably blow in a spectacular fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Ok thanks, I'll probably wait til I get the donor truck before I do much, I might check the threads on my condenser tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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