cps help

[lennyKatan]

How do I get to the cps and how to test it?

This lady down the road with two kids needs help, her

cherokee won't start. She has a 91 cherokee laredo il 6 4x4.

I took the battery out and juiced it up.

I bleed the fuel rack and nothing came out. I'm planning on changing

the fuel filter and also the ballister on the inside fender.

Two cheap things so far.

I cleaned up the cap and rotor. No spark.

The engine turns over no spark and i hear a tick tick tick sound

I need some ideas how to check and get to the

 

1)cps is there a way of checking to see if thats the problem?

 

2)Coil is there a way to test it?

 

any other Ideas trying to help get her car running so she could look

for work before the snow flies

 

thanks

[Eagle]

BEFORE you just start changing things, find out what the problem is. From your post, it sounds like you have both no fuel AND no spark. That's so unusual that I think you need to do more checking before you replace anything.

 

First off, replacing the fuel filter periodically is a good idea, but unless it's completely plugged it won't usually prevent starting. The ballast resistor feeds the fuel pump, so it COULD be involved, but it doesn't have anything to do with spark.

 

FUEL

 

* When the key is first turned to ON (not to START), you should hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds. It shuts off when the pressure in the injector rail reaches the operating pressure, so you have to listen the FIRST time you turn on the key. If the fuel pump runs, then check the rail for pressure.

 

* If you do NOT hear the fuel pump and there is no pressure in the rail, crank the engine for a few seconds. Have her do it while you get under the back of the vehicle and listen to the fuel tank. That START circuit by-passes the ballast resistor, so the fuel pump should operate while the engine is cranking. Check the rail again. If still no pressure, it might be the fuel filter but it's more likely the fuel pump.

 

* You can double-check the fuel pump by simply removing the two wires from the ballast resister and connecting them together. Then turn on the ignition (to ON, not to START). You should hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds, until the rail is pressurized. If the fuel pump doesn't run with the ballast resistor by-passed, the problem is likely the fuel pump itself, but it could be in the wiring somewhere downstream from the ballast resistor. You can then get underneath with a test light or multi-meter, unplug the connector near the fuel pump, and check to see if you're getting voltage as far as the connector.

 

Note that so far these tests haven't cost anybody any money. They're just trying to zero in on what and where the problem is.[/u]

[lennyKatan]

So far I changed the fuel filter. I have cleaned off the tabs on inside of the dis/cap and clean off the rotor.

Ive taken off one wire and put a plug into it and had someone turn the key and still no spark! I pulled the vacum hose from the map sensor and replaced it and also took off the other plug on the map and put it back. I get gas at the rack now it flows much better.

 

The noise that the engine makes is tack tack tack and its coming from the starter. that could be the pinion gear making the noise?(i'm thinking and that could be harmful :eek: )

I'm thinking the battery that i had on my home charger still isn't powerful enough to crank the engine over.

This jeep has been sitting for over 7 + months.

Tomorrow I will put my cable to her cables and disconect her battery.

I also noticed the fuse box on the passenger fender had a wire from the large plug that says starter. I took off the fuse/relay and the wire is on one of the tabs of this plug.

I belive this wire is going to the starter solenoid.

 

thanks for all your help

[Pete M]

Is the engine actually rotating when you turn the key? If just the starter is making noise, then it could be that either the battery is too weak, the connection to the battery cables needs to be cleaned up with a wire brush (both the outside of the terminals and the inside of the clamps), the cables are too old and need to be replaced, or the starter itself is failing.

[Wildman]

To answer your question on testing the CPS, Check this out, about half way down the page -

 

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Eng ... ostics.htm

 

Or here -

 

http://members.cox.net/wilsond/Fixes/di ... CPSdetails

[Eagle]

If it's just clicking and not actually turning over, there won't be any spark.

 

Stop getting ahead of yourself and verify what's actually happening. When the key is turned to the START position, if the fan isn't rotating then the engine isn't turning over. No spark is possible if it isn't turning over.

[lennyKatan]

I went out again and push the button on the fuel rack. Now I seem to have a lot of pressure, gas comes out nice and strong.

I tried starting it and I even jump it with my other Jeep. Still it won't start.

All I hear is tick ticking of the starter solenoid I belive. I had it in Park and then in Neutral didnt help. I also turned on the h/lights and the power windows worked even put on the radio.

Is my next step would be pulling the starter and get it tested. Before that I will check the wires to it.

I need to ask this question again has anyone have an idea why someone would put a wire from the starter /solenoid back to the left side of engine fuse box thats on the passenger side. It sits under the fused marked starter. It seems like it just touchers one of the tabs on that fuse. I'm not 100% sure.

The wire is coming out from under the fuse that says starter it looks as if it is connected to the neg - terminla of the solenoid.

THANKS 2/all for your help

[lennyKatan]

Yes I also did turn the key to on and I could hear the fuel pump.

I even checked the fuel line and yes there was gas.

I like when things don't cost and I could fix it with your help. I'm also sure this women is also happy

[Eagle]

I need to ask this question again has anyone have an idea why someone would put a wire from the starter /solenoid back to the left side of engine fuse box thats on the passenger side. It sits under the fused marked starter. It seems like it just touchers one of the tabs on that fuse. I'm not 100% sure.

The wire is coming out from under the fuse that says starter it looks as if it is connected to the neg - terminla of the solenoid.

THANKS 2/all for your help

It would probably help you a LOT if you could lay your hands on a wiring diagram. The diagram in either Chilton's or haynes Cherokee book would be close enough for your purposes in this case, and if you don't already have one you might find one at a library.

 

The XJ/MJ in that vintage used a relay on the passemger side inner fender (the power distribution center) to feed the solenoid on the starter. If that sounds like a redundant solution ... I would agree with you, but that's how they did it. Perhaps that's the wire to which you are referring.

 

You haven't responded directly, but I'm sort of figuring that perhaps the engine isn't actually turning over? What happens if the headlights are on when you turn the key to start? If the headlights are bright and STAY bright, then the solenoid isn't engaging the starter. If the headlights are bright but die out when you hit START, then either the battery is dead or the engine is frozen up, because the dim lights means there's more draw than the battery can provide power for.

[lennyKatan]

I may have an old book around for Cherokee but I'm not sure of the year of it. That is a relay I shouldnt have called it a fuse. and the wire is coming from underneath the relay for the starter, just as you push it down on the fuse box. Why would someone do that? ;)

 

No the engine isn't turning over.

I will have to try in the AM when my wife goes off to work and keeping the lights on and have her turn the key to start.

Will let you know what I happens

[Pete M]

I may have an old book around for Cherokee but I'm not sure of the year of it. That is a relay I shouldnt have called it a fuse. and the wire is coming from underneath the relay for the starter, just as you push it down on the fuse box. Why would someone do that? ;)

 

I'm still confused. Any chance you can snap a photo?

[lennyKatan]

Here is what i did this evening,

I was able to turn the engine with a socket. 1st it didn't want to move then it did. So the engine isnt stuck.

I took a picture of the wire coming frtom the relay, now If I could fig out how to post a picture I will.

Getting a battery tomorrow from the junk yard. 20 bucks and a 1 yr warranty. The battery I charged is dead again. [/code]

[jtdesigns]

Here is what i did this evening,

I was able to turn the engine with a socket. 1st it didn't want to move then it did. So the engine isnt stuck.

I took a picture of the wire coming frtom the relay, now If I could fig out how to post a picture I will.

Getting a battery tomorrow from the junk yard. 20 bucks and a 1 yr warranty. The battery I charged is dead again. [/code]

 

You have to find a host for pictures. I use photobucket Comanche Club Image Hosting

 

Make an account then download the pictures to it. when you have the picture loaded onto photobucket, look for something called IMG code. click it and it auto copies but I always right click and copy again. then right click in your reply and paste... all done,, just preview then submit!

[lennyKatan]

I went out too the wire that I keep asking about the one coming from the relay box on passenger side. The wire that comes from under the relay marked starter. I took out the wire from under the relay. I then turned the key to start I got noting no noise. I put the wire back under the relay only touching one of the tabs the way I found it, went and turn the key to start and I got that ticking sound again I belive that its comeing from the solenoid.

Thats the wire I was asking about that I have no idea why it was put there.

NOw I know without the wire it has no power to the soleniod???? so must be a break someplace in the wireing.

WHat I have done so far.......

I changed the fuel filter

I drain some of the old fuel and replaced with new gas.

I changed the ballistor to the fuel pump.

Check the fuel rack and its getting gas now with pressure.

I hand turned the engine crack and it moves.

 

I'm getting a battery from the junk yard for $20 with a year warranty, It should be good for turning over the engine. If thats the problem?

 

Any thing else I should try before going for a round trip ride of a hour.

 

:cry:

[Wildman]

If the starter soleniod is "clicking" that means the starter if frozed up, OR the battery cable is not putting enought current thru to turn the started.

 

You turn the engine with a 3/4" socket on the harmonic balancer bolt, good, you know the engine is free ;)

 

Did you check the battery cables?? both the positive and negative????

 

One trick, take a hammer and tap the starter 3-4 time and then hit the key, if the starter is locked up, Some times this frees it up. One of two things are wrong, the cables are bad, or corroded and not making good contact, OR the starter is shot.

 

You keep playing with the starter relay, you took the wire off and found nothing, that's not your problem. If the soleniod is clicking, it want to get juice to turn the starter, and your not.

[lennyKatan]

Update is as follows

I pulled and took the starter and soleniod to get checked. The small tab on the soleniod was very lose. Got and new soleniod and the starter works. On a bench test. I also took the coil to have checked, this too is ok.

I have a battery to put in. So when all of this is done I will let you know if this 91 cherokee will react to the goodies.

thanks

[lennyKatan]

Its been about a week maybe more since I posted any news about getting this Jeep running.

Now I could say it is.

It didn't start right away but after bleeding the fuel rack and moving the injectors then removing n pluging in the map sensor. After a few trys she started up.

The solenoid on the starter was bad, battery was bad. I also changed the fuel filter and put in a new ballister.

She is running and started up a few times again.

It needs for inspection is,,,, e /brake something I never did before and not sure I could do it on my back but will take a look,

Also the drivers side fender at the lights are pushed in. A local body shop said I could get a fender for $86 or 96$ just for the fender.

 

Anyway thanks to all of you for your help and letting me learn some stuff.

 

Thanks

[Pete M]

Got a picture of the damage to the fender?

[lennyKatan]

The wirer is as you could tell comes from the relays and it says starter the wire goes to the starter

The pic of the fender is what I need to get fixed

 

go to http://www.flickr.com/photos/homejeep/