2.5L Transmission Swap

[mnkyboy]

Looks like he is in Sandy Oregon, so somewhere out near me.

 

 

[Green Mesa XJ]

Looks like he is in Sandy Oregon, so somewhere out near me.
 
 

Oh, the jeep I’m thinking of is in Pensacola florida. Pretty much kills that idea. Even if I bought and sold him everything needed for less than the whole jeep cost , the cost of freight would be prohibitive.



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[Jeep Driver]

If you don't have Jeep buddies, if you don't have a pile of parts, if you don't have Jeep buddies with piles of parts. 

From scratch, auto to manual. 

 

AX15- $550

Dakota bell- $225

Clutch- $125

Master/slave- $230

Pilot bushing- $10

Pedal assembly- $50

Flywheel- $60

Xmember- $20

Trans mount- $15

Trans mount plate- $20 (modify exhaust mount at plate) 

Shifter- $30

Shifter boot and bezel- $30

Drive shafts, if needed, mine cost- $575

 

Misc- fluids, speedo cable, seals.....anything that is unforeseen, nuts, bolts.......whatever............$50

 

Total- $1,990.00

 

Edit: my list neglected the TC, whether he needs one, one he has has a different spline count, whatever the need is.......add that too. 

[Jeep Driver]

Need to revise this a bit-

 

Only one listed on Ebay, none locally. These parts are getting harder and harder to find. 

 

Pedal assembly, $210 shipped. 

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/95-Jeep-XJ-clutch-pedal-assy/263519566858?hash=item3d5afd7c0a:g:OFYAAOSwPXBalB4s&vxp=mtr

 

 

[JeepcoMJ]

I just realized that my old opinionated ways have been replaced by savee lol.

 

 

Look, Ncardwell, I get where you're at.

 

Tell you what, answerve a few questions.

 

What is the truck used for?  Dd?  Mild occasional wheeler?  

 

What are your driving habits?  Pedal stomper?  Sunday driver?  Keeps up with traffic?

 

What size tires are you running?  And with what gears?  2.5/auto equals 4.10 or (more likely) 4.56.

 

The answers greatly change the advice.

 

If I had a DD and wanted economy, I'd install a manual transmission for starters.  However, the best economy you will ever get with a 2.5 is less than a properly built 4.0 can get, and equal or less than the economy a 3.4 will get.

 

Manual transmission is the first direction I will lean.

 

After making that decision, the next question is "What can I get out of the 2.5?".  The answer?  Not your money's worth.

 

Being an 86, a 4.0 is not an easy or credibLe swap.  I'd advise to do a 3.4 swap.

 

Knowing that the ax4/ax5 does not react kindly to over 100hp, I'd also be looking for an external slave ax15 from any h.o. 4.0, and a 95+ dodge Dakota 2.5 bell housing.

Then, I'd look for a 5 speed donor among club members locally.  Preferably a 2.8/5 speed.

 

Now, if all of that isn't your bag, great.  You've made the real answer simple:

 

Find a good working ax5 from mid 90s xj, pedal assembly, master and external slave.  Then buy a renix 2.5 flywheel and clutch, and do the swap.  You may need drive shafts, crossmembers, etc...which is why I recommend a mid 90s xj as the donor.  

 

If you aren't going to do any engine swap, and never going to do upgrades to it, you will be satisfied with an ax5.

[Jeep Driver]

20 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

Need to revise this a bit-

 

Only one listed on Ebay, none locally. These parts are getting harder and harder to find. 

 

Pedal assembly, $210 shipped. 

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/95-Jeep-XJ-clutch-pedal-assy/263519566858?hash=item3d5afd7c0a:g:OFYAAOSwPXBalB4s&vxp=mtr

 

 

Well, that didn't last long. Gone. 

[Green Mesa XJ]

When I junked some cars, empty hulls and a few projects that didn’t make it, one of the tow truck drivers keep making offers for my 85 XJ which was on another part of the property. He saw it when he came up to the house. He wanted it no matter what because it was a manual transmission, according to him it was impossible to find.


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[JeepcoMJ]

23 minutes ago, Green Mesa XJ said:

When I junked some cars, empty hulls and a few projects that didn’t make it, one of the tow truck drivers keep making offers for my 85 XJ which was on another part of the property. He saw it when he came up to the house. He wanted it no matter what because it was a manual transmission, according to him it was impossible to find.


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He's dead wrong.

[Green Mesa XJ]

 
He's dead wrong.

Probably, but I don’t think I’ve seen that many around here. Automatic are a dime a dozen and 4.0 paired with AW4 is a good match.

Out west I saw a lot more 5speeds.


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[JeepcoMJ]

5 minutes ago, Green Mesa XJ said:

Probably, but I don’t think I’ve seen that many around here. Automatic are a dime a dozen and 4.0 paired with AW4 is a good match.

Out west I saw a lot more 5speeds.


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What I mean is that 85 to 86, manuals were more common.  2.5s  manual is more common.

 

Not a ton of 5 speed xjs, but let's face reality:  a 2.8 is junk, and a 2.5 isn't desirable, so how useful is an 85 parts xj.  It's only good as parts to someone who needs it, such as you.

[Green Mesa XJ]

 
 
What I mean is that 85 to 86, manuals were more common.  2.5s  manual is more common.
 
Not a ton of 5 speed xjs, but let's face reality:  a 2.8 is junk, and a 2.5 isn't desirable, so how useful is an 85 parts xj.  It's only good as parts to someone who needs it, such as you.

Won’t argue with that. The point with this guy was it was a intact 5 speed with a lift. What he said he wanted to do was modify it for some local event. He didn’t ask what year or engine it had and wasn’t put off by the boat anchor for an engine.


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[JeepcoMJ]

Just now, Green Mesa XJ said:

Won’t argue with that. The point with this guy was it was a intact 5 speed with a lift. What he said he wanted to do was modify it for some local event. He didn’t ask what year or engine it had and wasn’t put off by the boat anchor for an engine.


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Seems like a weird dude lol

[NCardwell]

Replying to JeepcoMJ,

 

I use my jeep as a DD and most of the time, I have to mash the gas just to get somewhat of acceleration, especially if I have impatient drivers behind, which in my case, is almost everyone. I'm running stock height on my jeep with 235 75r15 tires with 4.10 gearing. Also, I've heard that 3.4's were not that reliable, but correct me if I am wrong.

 

Thanks.

[Green Mesa XJ]

3.4 is the final rendition of the gm 2.8. Far as I know it’s pretty decent over all considering it’s such a small engine.

 

IMO the automatic is part of the problem. Ax5 with a 2.8 power house (jk) could chirp the tires 1&2, and did ok city except for steep hills with speed limits over 40. Could do ok on the hwy once (eventually) up to speed. BTW Was running 30.5 tires.

 

Maybe there’s a way to adjust the kick down on the automatic?

 

 

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[JeepcoMJ]

32 minutes ago, NCardwell said:

Replying to JeepcoMJ,

 

I use my jeep as a DD and most of the time, I have to mash the gas just to get somewhat of acceleration, especially if I have impatient drivers behind, which in my case, is almost everyone. I'm running stock height on my jeep with 235 75r15 tires with 4.10 gearing. Also, I've heard that 3.4's were not that reliable, but correct me if I am wrong.

 

Thanks.

 

Start collecting ax5 parts, and do the swap.

 

I had an 86 2.5 xj, 4.10s with ax5.  Thing was loaded with every single option.  Great jeep, good mpg, and it could scoot rather well.

 

I think the automatics play it safe...shift point on the 2.5 should be around 3000 rpm, and the auto want's to do it at lower rpms, which is the issue.

 

Use a mid 90s ax5 as it uses the same master, slave, throw out bearing and plate as an external slave ax5.

[Jeep Driver]

8 hours ago, Green Mesa XJ said:

3.4 is the final rendition of the gm 2.8. Far as I know it’s pretty decent over all considering it’s such a small engine.

 

IMO the automatic is part of the problem. Ax5 with a 2.8 power house (jk) could chirp the tires 1&2, and did ok city except for steep hills with speed limits over 40. Could do ok on the hwy once (eventually) up to speed. BTW Was running 30.5 tires.

 

Maybe there’s a way to adjust the kick down on the automatic?

 

 

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Do a little wiki. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_60°_V6_engine

 

25 year production run, numerous variants, something like 30 different models from 1/2 a dozen makers, including Isuzu. 

[Jeep Driver]

8 hours ago, NCardwell said:

Replying to JeepcoMJ,

 

I use my jeep as a DD and most of the time, I have to mash the gas just to get somewhat of acceleration, especially if I have impatient drivers behind, which in my case, is almost everyone. I'm running stock height on my jeep with 235 75r15 tires with 4.10 gearing. Also, I've heard that 3.4's were not that reliable, but correct me if I am wrong.

 

Thanks.

TBI? Have you done anything to address engine performance? If so, what?

 

PIcs? 

 

Do you realize people run 10 second cars with a 904? that a 904 can, if built, handle 550-650 HP? Not only is a manual valve body available, so is a reverse manual VB. 

In nearly 8 years now, I've seen 1 XJ with a 4x4 904 and you have the 3rd MJ I'm aware of with the 4x4 904. They are that rare.  

 

You need to do some reading, study, realize what you have and what you can do with it. 

 

Jeep people give you patent Jeep answers, this is one you need to think through. And no, what you heard about the 3.4 is wrong. 

[Green Mesa XJ]

Do a little wiki. 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_60°_V6_engine
 
25 year production run, numerous variants, something like 30 different models from 1/2 a dozen makers, including Isuzu. 

Bad link. And your point is what exactly?
RWD iron head the 3.4 in the Camaro is the direct descendant and final incarnation of the GM 2.8, almost bolt per bolt. If you want to bring up aluminum head FWD it’s a completely different can of worms and not really the same engine as the original GM design.
The new gm 2.8 I4 they share with Isuzu has nothing to do with the old late 70s design.


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[Jeep Driver]

2 minutes ago, Green Mesa XJ said:

Bad link. And your point is what exactly?
RWD iron head the 3.4 in the Camaro is the direct descendant and final incarnation of the GM 2.8, almost bolt per bolt. If you want to bring up aluminum head FWD it’s a completely different can of worms and not really the same engine as the original GM design.
The new gm 2.8 I4 they share with Isuzu has nothing to do with the old late 70s design.


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It's not a bad link. 

I said nothing about an I4 with Isuzu...........jeesh............man

 

Look it up yourself. 

[Green Mesa XJ]

It's not a bad link. 

I said nothing about an I4 with Isuzu...........jeesh............man

 

Look it up yourself. 

So I got to get a screen capture to show you the link doesn’t work?

Original 2.8 final edition as originally produced is for the Camaro & Firebird 3.4, freaking FWD that shared initial block design are far beyond and different generations from the iron head designs are unusable in these vehicles without a ton of fabrication.

The 3400 engine has the same bellhousing bolt pattern and was based on the 60 deg block but is not the same engine from the 1980s.

 

I don’t know why you are intent on nitpicking a moot point to start a fight.

 

 

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[NCardwell]

I have TBI and have done nothing to my engine, all stock. Also I'm not planning on running 10 seconds at the drag strip with my tranny, I’m just looking for a better alternative. I know what transmissions are capable of it’s just what you said was that I was 1 of 3 mj’s with the 904. There’s my issue, it’s rare, and I have had very difficult time trying to find parts, which in most cases I never find. On the other hand, the Ax5 has parts somewhat readily available. Also, from what my grandma has said(she bought it brand new in ‘86) that she’s had to replace the tranny multiple times and I don’t really want to go through that.

[Jeep Driver]

3 minutes ago, Green Mesa XJ said:

So I got to get a screen capture to show you the link doesn’t work?
Original 2.8 final edition as originally produced the for Camaro 3.4, freaking FWD that shared initial block design are far beyond and different generations from the iron head designs are unusable in these vehicles without a ton of fabrication.
The 3400 engine has the same bellhousing bolt pattern and was based on the 60 deg block but is not the same engine from the 1980s.

I don’t know why you are intent on nitpicking a moot point to start a fight.


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Alright, whatever. 

 

 

Did you read my post? Variants? I assume you know what a variant is?

 

I posted a link to a list, which you can find for yourself, of the vehicles with come with longitudinal V6s, including the Firebird, Camaro, S10, Blazer, Trooper..............there are millions of them. Aluminum heads, intakes, headers...............all available. 

[Jeep Driver]

4 minutes ago, NCardwell said:

I have TBI and have done nothing to my engine, all stock. Also I'm not planning on running 10 seconds at the drag strip with my tranny, I’m just looking for a better alternative. I know what transmissions are capable of it’s just what you said was that I was 1 of 3 mj’s with the 904. There’s my issue, it’s rare, and I have had very difficult time trying to find parts, which in most cases I never find. On the other hand, the Ax5 has parts somewhat readily available. Also, from what my grandma has said(she bought it brand new in ‘86) that she’s had to replace the tranny multiple times and I don’t really want to go through that.

Alright. 

 

You know how many AX5s I've been through? 5 in five years. 

 

If you think you are going to pick up a junk yard manual and never replace it??????

 

You've got a 32 year old truck, what do you expect? 

[Green Mesa XJ]

Alright, whatever. 
 
 
Did you read my post? Variants? I assume you know what a variant is?
 
I posted a link to a list, which you can find for yourself, of the vehicles with come with longitudinal V6s, including the Firebird, Camaro, S10, Blazer, Trooper..............there are millions of them. Aluminum heads, intakes, headers...............all available. 

you do know what original design means?
Troopers, s10, Camaro all uses the original generation 1 design. GM sold the Camaro 3.4 to owners of these vehicles to replace the 2.8 & 3.1 engines. S10 and Isuzu stoped using this engine in 91&93 they never got the 3.4 or adapted the FWD engines based on this block.

Generation 2 and 3 are different animals.
If the phrase final incarnation bugs you so much I’ll admit the final incarnation of the block did go until the late 2000s, however the original engine, generation 1, is the 3.4 Camaro. All kinds of things from later generations can be adapted but not easily.



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[Jeep Driver]

8 hours ago, Green Mesa XJ said:

you do know what original design means?
Troopers, s10, Camaro all uses the original generation 1 design. GM sold the Camaro 3.4 to owners of these vehicles to replace the 2.8 & 3.1 engines. S10 and Isuzu stoped using this engine in 91&93 they never got the 3.4 or adapted the FWD engines based on this block.

Generation 2 and 3 are different animals.
If the phrase final incarnation bugs you so much I’ll admit the final incarnation of the block did go until the late 2000s, however the original engine, generation 1, is the 3.4 Camaro. All kinds of things from later generations can be adapted but not easily.



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Here is a V6 from a 94 Camaro, are you telling me this cannot be planted in an MJ?