Lift Questions - Beating That Dead Horse.

[Megadan]

Yes, I know it's been covered probably a billion times in the history of the Jeep world, but I find searching to leave me with more questions than answers.  It's incredibly frustrating to look for hours and find little to nothing.

So that being said, I have somewhat worked out my own little plans for a small lift.  The truck is mainly an on-road daily driver so comfort and ride are priority for me, which is why I am not looking for Add-A-Leaf setups.  I do have use for my truck off the road as well on everything from your basic dirt road, to rougher paths.  A little more ground clearance would be helpful, hence the small lift.  I also have a set of wheels on the way, and I would like to get rid of these horrible tires that came on the truck with something bigger as well.  I know that people can and have fit 31's with no lift, but I am not doing the lift for tire clearance anyway.

I am mainly looking for advice and opinions on any suggested changes.

First, To level out the truck a bit I have a pair of 1 3/4" front spacers on the way.  With the new, non-broken rear leafs on my truck has a serious rake to it even after the leaves have settled over an inch.  I know the front springs have sagged a bit, but I plan on replacing those eventually.  Even with the spacers I know it won't be level, but it will be closer.

My plan with the front was to use the OME "2"" front coils which are rated as 1 3/4" lift with the spacers-sans isolator (1.5" boost) to give me just a hair over a 3" front lift.  Out back I was looking to use the JKS Shackles rated to give a 1" lift on the Comanche, and hope that this gives a fairly even stance front to rear.

Shocks, I am open to suggestions.  I was looking at some BPEs for up front to go with said shocks as well.

Unsure about control arms.  I have seen fixed and adjustable aftermarket options, but if I can get away with factory stuff it would be nice to stay that way.  So many different opinions on this that I gave up trying to sort through it all.

I do know that an adjustable track bar is recommended beyond a 2" lift, so I do have plans for that as well.  Should I consider a different pitman arm as well?

I already have plans for longer brake lines in the works, so that is covered.  Both my front and rear rubber lines are dry rotted and in need of replacement, but I have done research on options for this.

[Incommando]

Both Rusty's and Rough Country state that the stock arms work for 3" of lift. Anything over requires aftermarket arms. To maintain your budget you can generally get away with just changing to longer fixed lowers for up to 4.5" of lift.

 

The same two shops state that an adjustable track bar is not needed for such a small lift. A common practice for 4.5" lifts is to re-drill the axle side mounting hole to achieve that correction for a 4.5" lift instead of using and adjustable track bar. This method has its supporters and haters but many MJ & XJ owners have gone this route with no ill effects. A drop pitman arm is not needed even with 4.5 inches of lift without a chnage to aftermarket from suspension geometry.

 

You money, your decision. You can certainly change to adjustable uppers and lowers and an adjustable track bar if that is something you need to do for your own standards for about $450-$500.  

 

The brake line relocation trick works fine for the front for up to 4.5" of lift. If you need longer front hoses then 95 YJ units are longer bolt-ons for the front while a 97-ish Dakota rear lines work and are longer. You can buy aftermarket purpose built lines for about 4x the price.

 

Some people are anal retentive and can only do what someone has told them is the "right" way. Your personality and wallet will decide whether this applies to you or not. 

[Megadan]

The YJ and Dakota lines are the ones I am buying.

Thanks for the info on the track bar and pitman arm.  So much information either way on this with small lifts that it gets somewhat annoying.

I will probably stick with the factory front control arms until I feel that they are necessary, although I will probably be putting in new bushings.  I saw how dry rotted the rears were when I changed leafs out.

For me, I am anal retentive about doing things the right way, but I am also not one to spend money when it is not necessary.  That is why I am trying to clear up some of the smog with  experienced peoples opinions instead of trusting what a website tells me.

BTW, I am also looking for a little "do it" or "Don't" as far as my plan to level the truck out.  I have searched every possible way I can to find how much front lift it takes to level a Comanche, and I either suck at searching or there just isn't much out there on it.  What is generally the lift amount up front to level?

[benjy_26]

Small lift that rides well and flexes off road? OME is IT for that type od stuff... unless your budget is tight. If it is, the next best thing to OME's heavy duty coils are the front coils off of a V8 Upcountry ZJ. They have a progressive rate, provide plenty of droop, and, in a MJ *should* get you about 2" of lift. Now, I installed a pair in my own MJ, along with a BB and got about 3" over stock. I bought mine used at a boneyard, though, so sag definately comes into play. A brand new set should get you close to what you need AND leave money in your pocket for some nice shocks. Depending on what you're doing, there are a oot of choices out there. For low speed, creepy crawly work, I like how hydros react. In fact, I have a set of velocity sensing Skyjackers on my MJ and they feel great. Smooth on road, but they soak up the bumps nicely off road. For higher speed stuff, Bilstein is great, as is Pro Comp's ES9000 and MX6 line (I run MX6's in the front of my ZJ with ES9000's in the rear).

[benjy_26]

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LS5FXBQX1G7P/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt/190-3867535-3703361#R2LS5FXBQX1G7P

 

$67 bones for the paid of XJ Upcountry coils. Apparently, nobody makes the ZJ replacements anymore, but that's probably ok, as a brand new set of V8 Upcountry's might be a bit harsh on the much lighter MJ.

[Megadan]

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LS5FXBQX1G7P/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt/190-3867535-3703361#R2LS5FXBQX1G7P

 

$67 bones for the paid of XJ Upcountry coils. Apparently, nobody makes the ZJ replacements anymore, but that's probably ok, as a brand new set of V8 Upcountry's might be a bit harsh on the much lighter MJ.

 

Small lift that rides well and flexes off road? OME is IT for that type od stuff... unless your budget is tight. If it is, the next best thing to OME's heavy duty coils are the front coils off of a V8 Upcountry ZJ. They have a progressive rate, provide plenty of droop, and, in a MJ *should* get you about 2" of lift. Now, I installed a pair in my own MJ, along with a BB and got about 3" over stock. I bought mine used at a boneyard, though, so sag definately comes into play. A brand new set should get you close to what you need AND leave money in your pocket for some nice shocks. Depending on what you're doing, there are a oot of choices out there. For low speed, creepy crawly work, I like how hydros react. In fact, I have a set of velocity sensing Skyjackers on my MJ and they feel great. Smooth on road, but they soak up the bumps nicely off road. For higher speed stuff, Bilstein is great, as is Pro Comp's ES9000 and MX6 line (I run MX6's in the front of my ZJ with ES9000's in the rear).

Excellent info.  Thanks for giving me other options.  There are no less than 4 V8 ZJ's in the You-pull yard right now (i was just there yesterday) and I have zero shame with using junkyard parts.  I will have to check and see.

[Megadan]

On further investigation, I noticed that the part number for the coil you linked are the same standard duty springs for the HO Comanches (CC782).  However, the Renix/earlier Comanche springs are part number CC784.
I also noticed a difference between them.  CC784 - 0.20"  more free length, and a higher spring rate of 158lb/in (vs. 146 for CC782).   I find it odd that a slightly longer spring with more spring rate would ride an inch lower than a slightly shorter softer one.  

[dscowell]

You mentioned JKS shackles give you 1" lift in the rear I would double check that sense most company's say the same thing on XJ and MJ products even though they may not be 100% accurate.  Comanche shackles are longer so I would just make sure to look it over one more time before buying.  As for track bar and control arms I would install everything first then see how it rides and how much you like it then decide, that way you aren't spending unnecessary money.  

[Megadan]

You mentioned JKS shackles give you 1" lift in the rear I would double check that sense most company's say the same thing on XJ and MJ products even though they may not be 100% accurate.  Comanche shackles are longer so I would just make sure to look it over one more time before buying.  As for track bar and control arms I would install everything first then see how it rides and how much you like it then decide, that way you aren't spending unnecessary money.

Been checked.  They state the same shackles give more lift on a Cherokee than a Comanche.  I did my homework on that little tidbit and already knew of the difference.

[HOrnbrod]

Just a couple of things:  Up front I used the OME 630 coils, advertised at 2", but I actually got 2-1/2". They always give lift as advertised, sometimes more depending on the coils you are replacing. Also they are marked left and right, so if you use these, be sure to install them on the correct side. I also used OME shocks, and the ride and handling is superb. And, I did get a 3/4" axle shift to the left, so even a relatively small lift can cause some shift. But finish everything else first so you know which adj. trackbar to buy (if you need it). I went with the Teraflex unit, as it adjusts like a tie rod with a sleeve and you don't have to disconnect one end to adjust it. Adjustable control arms will not be needed; and restoring caster back to factory specs can be easily accomplished by adding shims at the rear of the LCA. Speaking of LCAs, I highly recommend swapping out to WJ lowers. Besides being beefier and allowing full lock-to-lock turns, the bushings are designed differently. They are larger and really improve the handling up front.

 

For the rear I used new MT springs which gave me about 2-1/4" lift. Teamed with OME shocks also, the ride is great. They settled down maybe 1/2" over a year's time, then to get the little factory rake back I threw on a pair of greasable Teraflex shackles. Not the cheapest way to do a small lift, but I doubt you'll find a better way for improved handling and ride.

[benjy_26]

On further investigation, I noticed that the part number for the coil you linked are the same standard duty springs for the HO Comanches (CC782).  However, the Renix/earlier Comanche springs are part number CC784.I also noticed a difference between them.  CC784 - 0.20"  more free length, and a higher spring rate of 158lb/in (vs. 146 for CC782).   I find it odd that a slightly longer spring with more spring rate would ride an inch lower than a slightly shorter softer one.

 

On further investigation, I noticed that the part number for the coil you linked are the same standard duty springs for the HO Comanches (CC782).  However, the Renix/earlier Comanche springs are part number CC784.I also noticed a difference between them.  CC784 - 0.20"  more free length, and a higher spring rate of 158lb/in (vs. 146 for CC782).   I find it odd that a slightly longer spring with more spring rate would ride an inch lower than a slightly shorter softer one.

 

. Interesting.... Welp, I screwed the pooch on that one. Just look for a V8 ZJ with 4WD, skidplates, and blue shocks. Those are the ones you want to pul the front springs out of. When I was building my own ZJ, I couldnt find them, so I scrimped and saved for a while, got the 1" OME's, and am SO glad I did.

[desertmike]

If your interested, I have a Rancho 2 1/2 inch lift for sale. Two front springs, 2 lower control arms, 2 Rancho 9000 series front shocks and 2 older Rancho 7000 series rear shocks. Original owner in very good condition. No rear springs or add a leaf. All hydralic and adustable. $75 shipped on your dime.

[benjy_26]

^^^ That's a sweet set up. Honeestly, if nobody is interested in that, I'll take it.

[desertmike]

Not trying to hijack the thread, just an after thought as I was reading it.

 

benjy_26

If you want it its yours. I'll post some pics tomorrow and weight it.

 

I'm in SoCal 92284

[Megadan]

I didn't get to a response in time lol.  I am also interested in those items, but it seems benjy gets first dibs.  Ah well, the search continues.

[Megadan]

Just a couple of things:  Up front I used the OME 630 coils, advertised at 2", but I actually got 2-1/2". They always give lift as advertised, sometimes more depending on the coils you are replacing. Also they are marked left and right, so if you use these, be sure to install them on the correct side. I also used OME shocks, and the ride and handling is superb. And, I did get a 3/4" axle shift to the left, so even a relatively small lift can cause some shift. But finish everything else first so you know which adj. trackbar to buy (if you need it). I went with the Teraflex unit, as it adjusts like a tie rod with a sleeve and you don't have to disconnect one end to adjust it. Adjustable control arms will not be needed; and restoring caster back to factory specs can be easily accomplished by adding shims at the rear of the LCA. Speaking of LCAs, I highly recommend swapping out to WJ lowers. Besides being beefier and allowing full lock-to-lock turns, the bushings are designed differently. They are larger and really improve the handling up front.

 

For the rear I used new MT springs which gave me about 2-1/4" lift. Teamed with OME shocks also, the ride is great. They settled down maybe 1/2" over a year's time, then to get the little factory rake back I threw on a pair of greasable Teraflex shackles. Not the cheapest way to do a small lift, but I doubt you'll find a better way for improved handling and ride.

This is what I was looking for.  I really appreciated the advice and insight.   I am almost wondering if the rear leaves I got didn't give me a lot more ride height than factory, because the back of my MJ sits a lot higher than any other I have seen without a lift.   

[benjy_26]

I didn't get to a response in time lol.  I am also interested in those items, but it seems benjy gets first dibs.  Ah well, the search continues.

Man, I'm so sorry, but I've been looking for some LCA's to replace my stockers. It's too good a deal to pass up...

[Megadan]

 

I didn't get to a response in time lol.  I am also interested in those items, but it seems benjy gets first dibs.  Ah well, the search continues.

Man, I'm so sorry, but I've been looking for some LCA's to replace my stockers. It's too good a deal to pass up...

 

lol, it's no biggie.  Tell you what.  I'll take the springs off your hands and you can have the LCAs  :thumbsup:

The springs interest me the most at this point, especially if I can get my hands on them for about the same price or less as replacement factories from Moog.  I can work out the LCA thing a different way.

[benjy_26]

We'll talk. I'm doing some stuff to the MJ shortly, so either these springs might not work, or the Upcountry's and Energy Suspension pucks might get swapped out in favor of the springs. Either way, something's going to shake loose and you'll definately get first dibs, man.

[Megadan]

We'll talk. I'm doing some stuff to the MJ shortly, so either these springs might not work, or the Upcountry's and Energy Suspension pucks might get swapped out in favor of the springs. Either way, something's going to shake loose and you'll definately get first dibs, man.

I can deal with that either way!  thanks.

[benjy_26]

No prob. :)

[Pete M]

all classified stuff should be in the classifieds or in PMs. :thumbsup:

 

car-part.com should be able to help find some WJ lowers.  I've purchased a couple sets for $30.  If you don't find what you're looking for, you might try searching for a bigger ticket WJ item (engine/ front axle/etc) and then call the junkyards nearest to you and see if they have the arms available.

[Megadan]

I've already used Car-part a lot.  The problem with my state is that more local parts places tend to be hit or miss with listings on there.  Good idea though.