Remy B. Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hi guys, I'm new here, I was google searching and found a picture from one of you guys that have a triple weber carb setup in your MJ, I'm as well interested in this system, but I like to shoot some questions regarding engine setup, aftermarkets and type of camshaft are you running on your engines and complications you encountered with this setup, I have a some knowledge overhauling and building performance engines and I like to do it on engines that are not that common to this on ( ex. not another V8 Chevy, nothing against them just they are like dirt, they are everywhere ) a nice 6 cyl build is not that common and a nice project. I do like the triple weber setup I see a lot of potential in it, but, it is expensive and I don't know if just going with a Clifford 4 barrel manifold is better punch for the money, or even the double 2 barrel manifold from Manifold that I like more that the single 4 barrel manifold, I know it will be a little less performance than the triple but if I'm only will make 30+HP with triple setup I may better expense that money in other performance part to compensate and have better internals. Thanks I appreciate your comments, time and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Unless you, or someone you know who works for free, knows how to jet and synchronize triple Weber DCOEs, you'll be in for even more added expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The triple Weber setup was created as an upgrade for the carburetted AMC 4.2L engines, which used a monumentally horrible, semi-computer controlled carburetor. ALL the XJ and MJ 4.0L engines have electronic, multi-port fuel injection and you cannot possibly achieve better results than the EFI provides by going backwards to a mechanical carburetor setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The triple Weber setup was created as an upgrade for the carburetted AMC 4.2L engines, which used a monumentally horrible, semi-computer controlled carburetor. ALL the XJ and MJ 4.0L engines have electronic, multi-port fuel injection and you cannot possibly achieve better results than the EFI provides by going backwards to a mechanical carburetor setup. Well stated and very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacks Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Give Clifford Performance a call at 951-471-1161 and talk to Larry Clifford. He will gladly answer all your questions and give you the why that goes with it. He is the one who usually answers the phone. They have been at the inline 4 and 6 cylinder performance business for almost 50 years now. I'm sure he will tell you the same thing he did me. The dual Weber 38/38 gives the best bang for the buck on the 4.0 Jeep engine. I had the good fortune to trade my '97 TJ to them for a bunch of their performance parts. Check this... http://comancheclub.com/topic/41024-new-goodies-for-my-continuing-build/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 On a stock motor you would not see the kind of gains that are possible with these on a fully modified motor. There are plenty of 4.0 upgrades that will get you up to the extra 30 horse you want and be easier to tune and at a similar or less cost than what you're talking about. Do some research and you'll get to where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacks Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I will conditionally disagree with the EFI vs carbs. Dollar for dollar I think the carbs will win. Not saying you can't get the same out of EFI but you have to go to almost custom ground camshafts and aftermarket computer programing to achieve those results. I hope to have some dyno numbers this coming summer that will prove me right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I will conditionally disagree with the EFI vs carbs. Dollar for dollar I think the carbs will win. Not saying you can't get the same out of EFI but you have to go to almost custom ground camshafts and aftermarket computer programing to achieve those results. I hope to have some dyno numbers this coming summer that will prove me right or wrong. Perhaps for the seasoned tuner, but not for the guy who is wading into uncharted waters as this original poster is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy B. Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yes Cruiser54, it is a lot more money in making those carbs run to your engine internals, the tooling and parts to get the job done is expensive, that is why I'm not 100% willing to put down that much money, I may end up with a Clifford single 4 barrel manifold and NOS, and I still have a lot more money to spare in other parts. I just had not an opportunity to talk with somebody that have this triple setup, I know I can tune it and make it fast but will it really be the punch for the money or I'm better of spending that money in better internals. I have to be honest I LIKE A LOT the look's of those triple carbs and understand their potential but how much more will in performance will I gain compared to more common setups, like the single 4 barrel or 2x2 barrel manifolds. one other things that concerns me is the space in the engine compartment of the MJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy B. Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 Thanks for your Help Stacks, I will gave him a call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Having been into high performance air cooled VW's I know the price of those carbs is not cheap. And finding someone who can tune and balance them is all but impossible anymore. Don't get me wrong I love the look of the carbs but they aren't practical in something that is already set up with a decent injection system that is known to be tunable. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy B. Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'm sorry, my mistake, I'm talking of a lot of money in internals, all custom made pretty much, my question will it be with all those performance internals that are a must, how much HP more will the triple carb setup make over a will tuned single 4 barrel manifold, as I mention if it will be 30+HP I may use the money in other things for the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The only Comanche I've seen on this site with a setup like you're talking about is worldsfastestcomanche. There is an entire build page stickied to reference. You might try contacting him for more details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbyrambler Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 You're on the wrong forum OP. And what "internals" are you considering? http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4164&hilit=weber+carbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy B. Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 That is in my mind as well, to go to a MPFI performance system that I may later add a Supercharger to it, but that plus the internals to hold all that HP is a good chunk of $$$$$, and then the engine block will be at the break point, that will be the limit, It is cheaper to build a muscle car and get a lot more HP spending less money, but there are enough out there. and Aftermarket MPFI will do the Job hands down and with less problem and less money spend in tools and a lot less time spend to tune the engine, but they as well cost a chunk of money, at least for the ones I ask for that are FAST and Inglese, and it come down again how much more HP for the money spend, this is talking for a NA engine, with the MPFI, there is a much easier way to add supercharger to the system later own, not as for the carburetor version, but again we run in to the block limits. IMHO, the triple carb setup will make much more power than the stock MPFI / ECU the manifold that comes with the MJ, no matter how much injector, throttle body you put on it., I can put all the performance internals on the engine and that stock intake manifold will kill and restrict all the potential of those parts, that is why I'm thinking on the triple weber setup. Like it was mention, I'm wading on waters that I don't know, regarding of how much more potential there is for the money on the triple carb setup, that is why I like to ask if some one had tried this application and ask him some questions of what was the setup of his internals and systems. I may even help him to correct faults on his overall setup or maybe not, or he may already tried what I want to do and tell me that is not much more HP for that money. Honestly, I appreciate all and each of your comments, it is just part of posting on a website without knowing the person at the other side of the key board. Stacks, thanks again for that info about Larry, he for sure have a lot to say on it, as well it will be constructive and welcome to hear other experiences with triple carb setup. Thanks for your time and comments guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbyrambler Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Six TBs? http://comancheclub.com/topic/11623-the-worlds-fastest-comanche/page-8?hl=clifford http://comancheclub.com/topic/11623-the-worlds-fastest-comanche/page-11?hl=clifford :wrench: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacks Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I will conditionally disagree with the EFI vs carbs. Dollar for dollar I think the carbs will win. Not saying you can't get the same out of EFI but you have to go to almost custom ground camshafts and aftermarket computer programing to achieve those results. I hope to have some dyno numbers this coming summer that will prove me right or wrong. Perhaps for the seasoned tuner, but not for the guy who is wading into uncharted waters as this original poster is. I agree whole heartedly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I will conditionally disagree with the EFI vs carbs. Dollar for dollar I think the carbs will win. Not saying you can't get the same out of EFI but you have to go to almost custom ground camshafts and aftermarket computer programing to achieve those results. I hope to have some dyno numbers this coming summer that will prove me right or wrong. Very much looking forward to your results Larry. I love sidedraft Webers as an a great bolt-on upgrade to stock carbs like the SUs and Zeniths, but have no experience as to them replacing a decent EFI system, especially on a built stroker. Go for it mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I suggest starting here: $16.95 HP Books HP774: Book, "Weber Carburetors", 176 Pages, Paperback, Each - HP Books' Weber Carburetors explains the basics of carburetion design and theory of operation. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hpb-hp774?seid=srese1&gclid=CNa1hf6n8LsCFSUOOgoda28A_g Read it to get a good idea about Webers, what they can do, and what you will need to know and buy to do your own tuning. If it sounds like too much for you, then at least you can make an informed decision about passing on them. If you decide to go for it, you'll find a wealth of info to help you among its pages. Either way, it's money well-spent before you dump a pile of money into what is ultimately a very expensive setup. Among all carbs, you can't do better. Compared to custom fuel injection, you'll never do as well. While checking out alternatives, look at MegaSquirt fuel injection. If you are comfortable with digital electronics and custom intake work, I'd say they offer the ultimate: http://www.msextra.com/ . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Bottom line. Anyone looking at dropping the MPFI from their 87+ 4.0 for a gain of 30hp has no idea what they are doing, or is one stubborn old s.o.b. That this topic is even being entertained is abhorrent, and an affront to any current age mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Among all carbs, you can't do better. Compared to custom fuel injection, you'll never do as well. Agree with that. Assume the rest was directed to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 My entire post was direct and to the points raised by the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacks Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 If I was only going to gain 30hp I wouldn't be doing it either. lol Even if the parts are basically 'free'. I hesitate to put out any numbers but I'm hoping for something in excess of 300hp and close to 450ft/lbs of torque. I'll see this summer after the engine is broken in and they have a free Saturday at the shop that has the dyno. Hope I'm not stepping on myself here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'm sorry, my mistake, I'm talking of a lot of money in internals, all custom made pretty much, my question will it be with all those performance internals that are a must, how much HP more will the triple carb setup make over a will tuned single 4 barrel manifold, as I mention if it will be 30+HP I may use the money in other things for the engine. Why are you so fixated on removing an EFI system, that ALWAYS operates at the optimum air-fuel ratio, and replacing it with a carburetor that struggles to deliver an optimum air-fuel mixture and can really be optimized for doing so only under one or two load/RPM conditions? WAAAAAY back in time, when Jack Clifford was alive and running Clifford Performance & Research, my friend and fellow Hudson collector ran a Hudson Hornet-powered stock car that was set up with a Clifford triple Weber setup. The track where we ran was located immediately next to the Connecticut River. Typically, we had to run one set of jets for practice, then re-jet for the qualifying heats, and then re-jet again for the main event ... all due to falling temperature and rising humidity. That's how sensitive those things are. EFI would have taken care of that automatically, and far more accurately. Quite simply, IMHO you are heading in the wrong direction. Carburetors cannot do a better job of fuel management than modern EFI. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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