ParadiseMJ Posted September 29, 2013 Share Posted September 29, 2013 I'm about to delve in to the strange and frightening world of auto electrics. I've avoided this like the plague because although I have very limited experience in it. I have been "practicing" my soldering skills and gotten increasingly good results. Two things I think I really need to do and one I just want to do. So, as per usual I'm asking for some help from those who are adept at this type of thing. 1.) I need to re-visit my transmission/TCU/TPS connections. I want to tear it all back to where I can identify and follow each wire, make sure the connections are correct and solid. Currently all my splices are crimp-ons and a few I did with wire nuts (yeah, I know, I know). The result is that my truck runs great...sometimes. Then it seems like it changes overnight, literally. Also, I get NO reading from the square connector at the TPS...I get a good reading at the flat connector. 2.) My fuse block is damaged a bit. The "slots" are weak & loose, because of corrosion and/or just the 25 years. The plastic part is fine (no clutch juice on it, no melted plastic. As a result some things "tweak out" and a little manipulation of the block and fuses "fixes" it, for awhile...the fuses don't blow, they're just not making solid contact. 3). The C101 connecter - where is a diagram/schematic of it, what goes through it and is eliminating it a possibility and is there a write up on it anywhere AND how hard would it be to do it?? Oh, and would it even be worth it. I pulled it apart a couple years ago and cleaned it up, shined it up and smeared it with grease. 4.) My NSS is busted...as in...the plastic part is cracked. I can start it in any gear, the reverse lights don't work. So my question on the NSS is: Does the NSS affect the running of the transmission, the TPS, the TCU etc. Does it have any effect on the shifting i.e. the transmission knowing what's going on with the engine and/or wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cz777 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 please don't fear of auto electrics ...but learn to respect and rules to the game ......http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm traveling temp is to watch out for ...heat sinks will help too hope this helps a bit ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 3). The C101 connecter - where is a diagram/schematic of it, what goes through it and is eliminating it a possibility and is there a write up on it anywhere AND how hard would it be to do it?? Oh, and would it even be worth it. I pulled it apart a couple years ago and cleaned it up, shined it up and smeared it with grease. http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/renix-c101-delete-152271/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Thanks, both good links and advice. I kind of felt a bit stupid feeling like I had to "practice" soldering, but now I don't. I have my "soldering board" set up in the engine bay so I have a good base to work on, and avoid dropping crap left and right. I am also using a fly tying mag glass/clip set up that my Dad had. Makes it much easier to hold the wires than trying to do it with my fat stubby fingers. Going to dive in to this in the next couple weekends...any more tips & tricks are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Yessir and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 OK, so far, I've done the sensor ground upgrade - per Cruiser54 - easy enough. Took all of 5 minutes. I've looked over (intensely studied) the TCU wiring diagrams. The converter/brake wire (lt. blue/yellow) goes from the TCU to the ECU via a "resistor pack" and the brake switch...BUT...there's no provision for the lt. blue wire. It seems to terminate at a connector with the blue wire and a ground. I thought it was for the power/comfort, but that one should have 3 wires (one powered, one ground, one for the switch illumination). Mine did not have a power/comfort as it was a 5 speed in it's first life. There is a small connector with a tan, the lt. blue and a ground going in...and just one single wire going to/coming from the ECU harness. I was also successful in isolating the TPS wires from the TCU and making that connection. I had it wired wrong (go figure). I also used a crimp-on in line splice...like I would normally never use. I had assumed the wires had to go through the C101, but they go straight from the TCU to the TPS as far as I can tell. But at least I am getting a reading from the TPS now. I also spliced the reverse light from the 5 speed switch in to the NSS harness...and now they work. Anyone have any insight here?? I'm off to buy a new DMM as my "good one" is shot. I know I'm rambling...but tracing wires and figuring our where they go is definitely NOT my strong suit...I'd rather be swapping axles or welding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Anyone have advice to share regarding wiring a Renix 4.0 TPS originally mated to a 5-speed manual but now with 94 HO 4.0 AW4 TCU wiring? Because that is the current application here. . I mention it because I read a post by Cruiser this week that the reference signals for throttle position are opposite for them: They work opposite. The HO decrease voltage when throttle opened and Renix increases voltage. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave92cherokee Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The NSS doesn't control shifting of the trans it simply provides a path to ground for whatever gear the trans is in (auto) or a path to ground when the trans is in neutral (stick) which will allow or stop the ignition from allowing the starter to engage. As for the fuse block it's fairly easy to freshen up the contacts inside just very time consuming. You need a precision flat head screwdriver and a small wire brush. After removing the fuseblock from the firewall you can pull it back and seperate the two pieces inside to gain access to the back of the fuses. Inside each cavity where the wires go there's a little tab that keeps the contact inside the plastic that needs to be pushed over then it can be pulled out. After you pull it out clean it up with the wire brush to remove any corrosion and then just take a pair of needle nose pliers and squeeze down the sides to provide a tighter connection to the blades of the fuses. If you have any spare relay holders that were removed from the junkyard you can practice on them as they are done the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The NSS doesn't control shifting of the trans it simply provides a path to ground for whatever gear the trans is in (auto) or a path to ground when the trans is in neutral (stick) which will allow or stop the ignition from allowing the starter to engage. As for the fuse block it's fairly easy to freshen up the contacts inside just very time consuming. You need a precision flat head screwdriver and a small wire brush. After removing the fuseblock from the firewall you can pull it back and seperate the two pieces inside to gain access to the back of the fuses. Inside each cavity where the wires go there's a little tab that keeps the contact inside the plastic that needs to be pushed over then it can be pulled out. After you pull it out clean it up with the wire brush to remove any corrosion and then just take a pair of needle nose pliers and squeeze down the sides to provide a tighter connection to the blades of the fuses. If you have any spare relay holders that were removed from the junkyard you can practice on them as they are done the same way. . Good info, but not what is needed here - I'm talking about TPS, not NSS. (edit: Whoops - are you maybe not responding to my post?) . At issue is the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) on a Renix 4.0 being connected to provide the signal(s) needed by a 1994 electronically-controlled automatic AW4 from an HO 4.0, swapped in to replace the Peugeot 5-speed manual that was original equipment. . As noted in my previous post, Cruiser said in a different thread that the 2 TPSes are different. The questions are "how different?", "can the Renix TPS be wired to produce the correct signal(s) for an AW4 from a later year" (donor had an HO 4.0, with different TPS), and "if so, HOW?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave92cherokee Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I don't think you'll be able to rewire the tps to provide the right signals. The TPS is a potentiometer that changes value depending on throttle position. There's a wire for power and ground and then the signal wire that comes off the potentiometer that changes the voltage depending on throttle position. Think of it like the fuel level sender in the tank, on the renix mj's it's a preset resistance value and depending on fuel level the arm moves across it to change the resistance and the output voltage, and the HO sender is backwards from what the renix is. You would probably only be able to get the correct signals from the other tps as the resistance values between the two are likely different and won't be easily changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I don't think you'll be able to rewire the tps to provide the right signals. The TPS is a potentiometer that changes value depending on throttle position. There's a wire for power and ground and then the signal wire that comes off the potentiometer that changes the voltage depending on throttle position. Think of it like the fuel level sender in the tank, on the renix mj's it's a preset resistance value and depending on fuel level the arm moves across it to change the resistance and the output voltage, and the HO sender is backwards from what the renix is. You would probably only be able to get the correct signals from the other tps as the resistance values between the two are likely different and won't be easily changed. . That was what I was afraid of, alright. . But TPSes do put out more signals than just a variable resistor voltage, at least on other vehicles I remember. There is at least a WOT position and an idle position (and also a power enrichment function based on how fast the throttle is opened, but covered by the ECU though as I recall) on Bosch FI TPSes besides the variable throttle opening signal. Maybe the signal on the Renix and Chrysler HO are the same for some positions? And if so, which of those signals are used by the TCU for proper shifting and maybe torque converter lockup, and can they be used interchangeably? . Do we have any transmission experts (particularly for the late model [1994] AW4) here who can answer? . Barring that, what do you guys think of piggy-backing dual TPSes? Renix to throttle shaft, mounting screws custom threaded to accept screws into them and shouldered to provide a mounting base for a Chrysler HO TPS above it, and a stub shaft from/through the Renix TPS to the HO TPS mounted on it. HO TPS would be used exclusively to provide signal to the AW4 - would probably need a jumper to provide voltage, but that's all, I am thinking. Any reason that wouldn't work?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave92cherokee Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 If you're a member of NAXJA try sending kastein a pm. He started a thread titled everything you ever wanted to know about the aw4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you're a member of NAXJA try sending kastein a pm. He started a thread titled everything you ever wanted to know about the aw4. I've been following it, all 11 (so far) pages. My issue(s) have been touched on slightly and I've taken some of that advice. I almost have this animal tamed. Fixed several of the problems I was having just by fixing some factory connections and some of my own shoddy work before I had any clue what went where and who did what. I have two more wires to find before I button it all up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 If you're a member of NAXJA try sending kastein a pm. He started a thread titled everything you ever wanted to know about the aw4. I've been following it, all 11 (so far) pages. My issue(s) have been touched on slightly and I've taken some of that advice. I almost have this animal tamed. Fixed several of the problems I was having just by fixing some factory connections and some of my own shoddy work before I had any clue what went where and who did what. I have two more wires to find before I button it all up. . When you get a chance, will you clue us in as to what signals are needed from the TPS, and how you were able to get them from a Renix TPS into the 1994 AW4 transmission wiring which is looking for an HO 4.0 TPS signal? It will doubtless be illuminating for anyone looking to duplicate your work. . Incidentally, yesterday Zagscrawler started a thread in this forum asking advice about an almost identical swap. Here is a link to his thread, titled "Pulled The Trigger": http://comancheclub.com/topic/40450-pulled-the-trigger/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Trans side of TPS works the same on Renix or HO. The engine side works opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Trans side of TPS works the same on Renix or HO. The engine side works opposite. Soooo, Do I use the adjustable Renix TPS or the non-adjustable HO TPS?..I don't know if I ever asked that question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Trans side of TPS works the same on Renix or HO. The engine side works opposite. Soooo, Do I use the adjustable Renix TPS or the non-adjustable HO TPS?..I don't know if I ever asked that question! . Well, for the accelerator pedal to work properly, you have to use the Renix... I have no idea about the transmission side, but Cruiser said it is the same as the HO. . The issue I see is that you had a 5-speed originally, so if you haven't swapped to a TPS for use with auto trans, I guess you will have to! (Otherwise I expect you don't even have a transmission side on your manual TPS.) On the plus side, I read here in another thread yesterday or just today that the TPS for auto is cheaper than for manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 REnix TPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 the TPS for auto is cheaper than for manual. This is true and doesn't really make sense to me as to why, but what ever. Same thing holds true for the CPS vs CPS C101 bypass kit. The CPS is like $70 but the kit for the bypass was some where around $40 and came with the same CPS. :hmm: :dunno: :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Supply and demand. Manual trans were not common at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 REnix TPS. Yay...I did something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 You're doing alot of stuff right. Kinda like eating an elephant. One bite at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'm sending you a PM about the TCC switch picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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