Comanche County Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I know we've got someone who might be able to advise me... I'm trying to flip a 2001 Grand Am and I can't get the thing to start. The GF was driving it but it just up and quit. It cranks over fine. Yesterday it sputtered like it was going to start. Today, nothing. It sounds like its getting fire, I can hear it when cranking it over but it doesn't start up. I thought it was the fuel pump so I had a helper turn the key on while I was underneath it. Couldn't hear it turn on so I pulled it. But it bench tested just fine. So I followed the steps on this site: http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ign_quad_4/quad_four_module_1.php. It says if the ICM is bad it won't trigger the pump to turn on. But the ICM and the CPS check out good. I installed new plugs and a JY coil pack from a wrecked Grand Am. I assume the coil pack is good - considering it was running when wrecked. Also tried 2 other ICMs. I get nada. Only thing I haven't replaced is the spark plug boots which reside under the coil pack. Appreciate any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfreeman616 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 the white or black plastic part, did you replace that with the junk yard icms or just the icm itself? its usually called the coil pack housing and looks like this: they often will develop a cross-fire that won't show continuity but will cause a misfire/no start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodukexj Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 i would start by confirming spark and fuel- check (the wiring) if the pump is getting 12 volts at key on/crank. if not, is the fuel pump relay getting/putting out power? if no, is the ECM putting out? work backwards- how would you find a clog in a pipe. same goes for the spark- is the boot putting out? coil getting signal? . years ago my brother had a pontiac (sunfire? sunbird?) anyway, they were prone to burning out the wire that goes from the ECM to the injector... happened twice on his. I always try to follow R.C.B.R.C. - refresh conncections before replacing components (saw it on a forum somewhere, and totally agree) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Good advice guys... I took the entire coil pack housing with coils underneath and swapped a couple of ICMs onto it. A couple of the black tabs on the plug boots were broken...I'm gonna try zip tying them like freeman has pictured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Been fiddling with this thing all day. I'm leaning toward the CPS, although the resistance checks out when measured directly, but when measuring voltage throughput when cranking, I get nothing. I've also read that the coolant temp sensor can cause a no start. I think I hate this car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Just a thought, when the security systems in GM cars (passlock) starts misbehaving, it can sometimes do weird $#!&. Usually it's only temporary. I'm guessing the car can't get running long enough (or at all) to start throwing codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 The only code I'm getting is 0170. Changed the CPS this morning...still won't start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 That's a lean code. My mechanic friend suggested MAF sensor or low fuel pressure. Also something that came to mind, how trustworthy is the gas gauge? I'm guessing you've made sure it has gas already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 I confirmed the MAF was working in the proper voltage range 0-5v with some tubing and a human powered vacuum pump. The gas gauge was accurate displaying about 2-3 gallons left in the tank, minus about a pint that soaked into my shirt. I removed the pump again but this time it didn't fire up when I benched tested it. So got a new one, put it in....and same thing. It tries to start with starter fluid but dies. So spark and air is good. The fuel relay is confirmed, its getting power with the key in the "on" position. I jumped the 30 and 87 terminals where the relay plugs in and it doesn't turn the pump on with the key in the "on" position. But, I don't know if its only supposed to get power in the "start" position. For some reason the pump isn't getting told to turn on, the connectors to the pump do show 5v with the key in the on position though. Ignition components are all tested good, fuel control sensors are all tested good or new, the darn thing just isn't getting fuel. I'm thinking the ECM isn't telling it to turn on, or some sort of fusible link is out somewhere? :dunno: Thanks for the help fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Gogmorgo, you might be right,,,could be the passlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Yup, I'm coining a new catch phrase: "You've been Pass Locked". Gotta do this now: http://www.bergerweb.net/PasslockFix/index.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Yeah, it really does sound a lot like passlock. Is the security light on/flashing in the dash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 Put a new ignition cylinder (jy) in this morning. The security light was blinking when I put it in but I did the 10 min relearn procedure and now the security light is off, but it still won't start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 11, 2013 Author Share Posted March 11, 2013 To clarify, the security light is on solidly if I turn it to "on" after having it off for 5 seconds or more. But when I put the key back in and crank it for a few seconds then it turns off completely. I'm pulling my hair out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Relearning a new ignition cylinder is different from the basic key relearning for whatever reason. Turn key to "on", and the security light will turn on solid. Leave the key "on" for the ten minutes, then turn it off and on again. The security light should come back on again. Wait the ten minutes until it shuts off. Turn key off and on again, leave it on again for the ten minutes until it goes off (you've now done this three times). Then turn it off and try starting it. It *should* at this point have learned the new cylinder. There may be issues with using a cylinder from a different car, but I don't know. Of course GM recommends buying brand new parts. If this doesn't work, then the body control module may be bad, which is very pricey to replace. If you take this issue to a dealer, you'll likely get quoted over a grand to replace the whole system. Also worth mentioning, although I don't know if it applies to your generation of passlock or just the next one newer, but people have had success simply cleaning the contacts in the cylinder. Just a bit of a disclaimer, all I know about passlock it what I've learned when researching for my parents' car which had passlock do it's thing every now and again. There were a bunch of things I wanted to try, but my parents were satisfied with walking away for twenty minutes whenever it happened, after which point it usually started up. so I never actually did anything with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Also, this guy http://newrockies.com/ sells a kit that apparently bypasses everything. Costs $180 though. Several years ago he was also selling instructions to build your own kit for significantly less, but I don't know that he is anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airspeed Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Have you tried to clean the key? GM roadside assistance would always tell my daughter to clean the key when the security light was blinking. The car was towed back to the dealer four times, three times it got a new fuel pump. We finally traded it on a Toyota and have not had a problem since... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 After it quits raining I'll go out and try the relearn procedure again. It takes a normal key. It isn't the VATS style key with the resistor in it, so there's nothing really to clean. I'm familiar with VATS, had an issue with it in a Caddy DeVille once, that was a pain too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMCJeepMJ Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 My sister's 88 Cutlass Calais had a Quad 4 in it... went throught three head gaskets at the local Olds/Cadillac/Isuzu/Infiniti dealer (this was way back, obviously). I hope by 2001 they had that issue figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Well, the resistor trick didn't work. I'm gonna try a different BCM, after that I think I'll be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I'd try to get the BCM out of the same car you got the cylinder from. Likely won't matter, but you never know. AFAIK the resistor thing only works if you can measure the proper resistance of the original and then replicate it, but I don't know that you can get the resistance if the unit's not working properly. In addition to that bypass kit I mentioned above, I've also heard that most aftermarket command start systems have a bypass built in. But again, that might only be for the Passlock II, or whatever it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodukexj Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I confirmed the MAF was working in the proper voltage range 0-5v with some tubing and a human powered vacuum pump. The gas gauge was accurate displaying about 2-3 gallons left in the tank, minus about a pint that soaked into my shirt. I removed the pump again but this time it didn't fire up when I benched tested it. So got a new one, put it in....and same thing. It tries to start with starter fluid but dies. So spark and air is good. The fuel relay is confirmed, its getting power with the key in the "on" position. I jumped the 30 and 87 terminals where the relay plugs in and it doesn't turn the pump on with the key in the "on" position. But, I don't know if its only supposed to get power in the "start" position. For some reason the pump isn't getting told to turn on, the connectors to the pump do show 5v with the key in the on position though. Ignition components are all tested good, fuel control sensors are all tested good or new, the darn thing just isn't getting fuel. I'm thinking the ECM isn't telling it to turn on, or some sort of fusible link is out somewhere? :dunno: Thanks for the help fellas. is there perhaps a fuel pump cut off switch (inertia switch) that could have tripped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Could be, but I'm going to say that if the security light's on, 9/10 times that's going to be the security system preventing the starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Its never been in a wreck AFAIK, the car is straight as can be. Not ruling out a cut-off switch, but I've read there's a signal that comes from the instrument cluster too? :dunno: I hate feeling my way through a problem. I'll pull the BCM from the same car tomorrow, keeping my fingers crossed. Whatever happens, we'll be in the black. She was given the car...I've put about $400 into it in parts and towing (had to rent a dolly and tow it 150 mi). A few weeks ago before I even touched it, I put it up on CL for $750 w/o a title and all the donk drivers were calling me around the clock. I had at least 25 calls on it and more texts and emails. So we decided to get the title and fix it and get a little more out of it. We've got the title now, so if I can get it going I think $1,500 is the minimum I'd take. Either way, it'll sell and we'll make a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Love it when things work out like that. Although part of me wants you to keep at it until it's fixed because despite everything I've read about it, very few people have actually got it fixed and I want to know how/what did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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