What dana 44 should i put in the front of my comanche?

[Joe]

So I'm gonna put an 8.8 in the rear i think and i want to put a dana 44 in the front but i don't know what 44 i should use and from what??? And wtf do i do with all the vacume crap? Is it easy to convert?? I'm gonna run 38s to 40 inch tires lock and gear. Any input will help. I just broke a ujoint and had to replace it don't want to do that again. haha

[Regger]

I would recommend a Jeep Wagoneer D44. The only problem is the D44 is a 6bolt hub. So either you convert the D44 to 5bolt using Ford parts, and then re-drill your 8.8 to 5x5.5, or you keep the D44 6bolt, and then using bolt circle converting spacers (converts 5x4.5 to 6x5) on the 8.8.

But personally, I would just get both D44's from the wagoneer and not have to worry about the bolt pattern. Thats what I did.

 

As for the vacuum crap. Just pull it all out, and then I think all that is left under the hood (under the coolant pressure bottle) is one vacuum line that you plug.

 

HTH

Ryan

[mvusse]

With 38" to 40" tires you will need something bigger than a D44. The larger D30 u joints are the same ones used in just about every D44 out there and I break those routinely with 35" tires. Neapco Bruteforce and Duralast Gold may go for a few minutes, cold forged Spicer (5-760x) usually goes for a few months and even Chromoly ones from Alloy USA don't last.

 

D60 would be a better choice, but unless you want to deal with cutting it down, using custom length shafts and trying to find enough axle tube to weld control arm brackets and such to you'd be better off to leave it full width which would be 67 or so inches wide, which means you'd need a full width rear axle to match it.

 

If you do want to go with a D44 (but I highly advice against it), you can get a high pinion driver side drop one out of older Fords (that's the route I was going to go before I realized I'd still be breaking joints), but again, it's full width. You could cut it down (and possibly use Wagoneer shafts) to match the rear axle, though. Another popular choice is the Wagoneer or full size J truck, some are driver side drop and they are the same width as MJ axles. I personally know one Cherokee running one and instead of modifying the axle to use the stock 4 link coil suspension they converted the Cherokee to use the axle's leaf spring suspension. Either way you would end up with a different wheel bolt pattern so you'd need to find a rear axle that matches or run adapters. The guy with the Wagoneer 44 in front uses the rear axle out of the same truck (also a D44).

 

The only D44 that's a direct bolt on is a TJ Rubicon front axle. It still uses the same u joints and unit bearings as a D30, though, and the low pinion D44 gears are hardly any stronger than a high pinion 30. On top of that, people think they are worth their weight in gold. They go for $1,000 and up around here.

 

Possibly also rethink your tire size. It costs a LOT of money and fabricating to fit 38" to 40" tires under a Comanche and have the truck work correctly to where you're happy with it.

 

I would say to spend a month or so doing research. Google is your friend, Pirate 4x4 has some great information (but you probably don't want to ask a question there as they would rip you to shreds if you do), and go play in junk yards to see what axles come under the front of mostly full size trucks, especially 3/4 ton and 1 ton ones, what wheel bolt patterns are available, what width they are and what size u joints to use. You would also see the difference between unit bearings and rebuildable hubs as well as king pin vs. ball joints.

[mnkyboy]

I wouldn't run 40" tires with a 8.8 rear,maybe a D44 if I had the money to go 35 spline but really you need something bigger.

 

I would do a d60 or 14 bolt rear and for the front at the least a retubed D44 from a full size Ford truck or Bronco.

[35 Dollars]

If you want to have good ground clearance under the pumpkin in the front of your truck seek out a dana 50 (over the D60); more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_50

 

They are basically a dana 44 pumpkin with a larger axle shaft. There's been a lot of interest in these over the last 10 or so years, so finding aftermarket replacement parts has become much easier.

 

If you go with one (or the D44), then just use later Ford spindles and hubs on it - from the 90's - and they'll match the 5x4-3/4" bolt pattern of the 8.8.

 

If you go with the D44, be sure to take one off a pre '83 WAGGONEER, not the Cherokee Chief - which is wider (unless that's what you want). If you want to go with 5x5.5" bolt pattern, take the spindles and hubs off an 81 or earlier Ford F150. You can take the 8.8 axles out of a Ford E150 van (5x5.5" Bolt pattern) - which can be easily converted to disc (you'll have to cut new holes in the rotors to match 5x5.5"), and it will be just about as wide as the Waggoneer axle IIRC (or it could be the Cherokee Chief axle).

 

It's been a number of years (like 10) since I originally researched this, but I'm sure I have most of these facts right. Someone may have more information on it.

 

8.8 has an axle shaft that is quite a bit larger than the D44 - so I doubt it'll be your weak link. For additional safety have the tubes welded to the pumpkin on the 8.8 - the spot welds are where they are the weakest.

[mnkyboy]

An 8.8 is 31 spline a D44 is 30 spline so a 8.8 shaft is only slightly bigger then a D44. The 8.8 is also C clip and runs much weaker axle bearings then a D44.

A D44 can also be modded to 35 spline.

 

A wagoneer uses a LP D44 which IMO would be a bad axle for 40" tires.

 

that combo would be great on 35s but not 40s unless your building a mall crawler.

[35 Dollars]

An 8.8 is 31 spline a D44 is 30 spline so a 8.8 shaft is only slightly bigger then a D44. The 8.8 is also C clip and runs much weaker axle bearings then a D44.

A D44 can also be modded to 35 spline.

 

A wagoneer uses a LP D44 which IMO would be a bad axle for 40" tires.

 

that combo would be great on 35s but not 40s unless your building a mall crawler.

 

High Pinion 44's are hard to come by, and many people that know what they are want bank for them. I don't understand what you mean by "...which IMO would be a bad axle for 40" tires." People put 35's on D30's and 35C's (riskier) they still handle it with aplomb.

 

I've got them both sitting right outside my garage door, and trust me the 8.8 is a lot larger shaft than the 44. Few people have ever broken the C-clips of an 8.8 unless they were too heavy on a really powerful or torquey V8 - even my local Truck Parts store took them off their shelves because they weren't being bought.

[Pete M]

for tires that extreme I would go with late model Ford Dana 60/10.5 combo from under a super duty. They aren't that rare and can be had with factory 4.10 or 4.30 gearing. search car-part.com for various years of super dutys and excursions. It might cost 1500-2000 for the axles, but you can get away with not regearing (saving 600-1200 bucks).

 

an earlier super duty Dana 50/10.5 combo is also pretty good.

[mnkyboy]

The OP wants a 38"-40" tire with a locker. An 8.8 isn't enough axle

 

Yes people have ran 35s on D30s and D35s a lot of people also break them.

 

HP44s are easy to come by and cheap,I have several of them sitting at the shop right now. The expensive part is getting one under your truck

[mnkyboy]

I've got them both sitting right outside my garage door, and trust me the 8.8 is a lot larger shaft than the 44.

 

Have you measured them both after they neck down? If my info is correct it should be 1.30" vs. 1.32". Which isn't much

[mvusse]

for tires that extreme I would go with late model Ford Dana 60/10.5 combo from under a super duty. They aren't that rare and can be had with factory 4.10 or 4.30 gearing. search car-part.com for various years of super dutys and excursions. It might cost 1500-2000 for the axles, but you can get away with not regearing (saving 600-1200 bucks).

 

an earlier super duty Dana 50/10.5 combo is also pretty good.

 

I would take a second generation (93-98) Sterling 10.25 over the 10.5 any day. The 10.5 has weaker pinion bearings and the weird 8 x 170mm metric wheel bolt pattern.

[35 Dollars]

Here's a quoted post from a thread on a different Jeep website:

 

Shaft testing: Warn did a break test on stock D44 and 8.8 axle shafts a few

years ago in one of the off road magazines. The results had the D44

breaking at about 4600 pounds per foot of rotational twist, but with the 8.8

they couldn’t get an actual result..... because at the 6200 lb limit of the

machine, the 8.8 axles were still holding tight!!!

As far as the 8.8 being a C-Clip axle, to me this is not a weak link in my

mind-don’t see how the ¼” piece of steel is considered weak, especially

seeing that it has very little stress on it!

 

COT: Continuous output torque rating

MOT: Maximum output torque rating

Numbers from January 2004 edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.

 

Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480

Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460

Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600

Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100

Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500

 

 

Funny how close the numbers are for the 8.8 31 spline and the D-60

 

The 28 spline is still stronger than a D-44 like it or not. and its not that "thin" near the C-clip

 

I know the die-hard D-44 guys will get pissed, But facts are facts.

The 8.8 does not have a large taper down to the C-clip.

Note the different "step-downs" to the splines.

The 8.8 ONE, the D-35 TWO. Also note the taper down section is STILL THICKER THAN THE D-35 MAIN SHAFT.

 

 

Facts are facts...

[35 Dollars]

Here's the entire post if you want to read through the argument.

 

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=31724&highlight=d44+8.8

[mnkyboy]

I don't think anyone is disputing that stock an 8.8 is stronger then a D44,It has a larger ring gear,larger pinion shaft,and larger axle shafts

 

I just don't think its the right axle to run with 40" tires and a locker.

[Pete M]

COT: Continuous output torque rating

MOT: Maximum output torque rating

Numbers from January 2004 edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.

 

Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480

Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460

Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600

Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100

Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500

 

haha! I typed that part out years ago. :D

 

 

I would take a second generation (93-98) Sterling 10.25 over the 10.5 any day. The 10.5 has weaker pinion bearings and the weird 8 x 170mm metric wheel bolt pattern.

 

And if you can get a matching Dana 60 to go with that 10.25, I'd do it in heartbeat. the earlier 60s are slightly better than their later counterparts too. :thumbsup: but I doubt a 4.0 powered MJ will eat either rear axle anytime soon.

[COFFMAN]

Great info lads keep it cumin :clapping:

so a jk front d44 is not the same width as an original mj diff housing??

i get so much info from these discussions love it :yes:

[mvusse]

IIRC, JK axles are 4" wider.

 

Their bolt pattern is 5 on 5.

[35 Dollars]

Joe? What kind of wheeling do you do that you need to put 40" tires on your truck? Or are you going for the "LOOKS"...

 

I'm still under the impression that if a D60 can handle 40"ers, so can an 8.8, 32-spline - look at the MOT numbers - they're just too close and you'll get more ground clearance with the 8.8.

 

Well... I'll retract what I said above - this guy seems to know more about it than I:

 

CRASH writes:

 

This FAQ is designed to help sort out the plethora of information available on the web regarding the relative strength of axles sourced from various applications.

 

Disclaimer: I know nothing about wheeling in mud, except that I hate it. I have no idea what works and what doesn't, but if you follow the rules below, you'll have no trouble in the goo.

 

Disclaimer #2: The below is for XJ's. They run about 5,000-5,300 loaded for a trail run and a weekend of camping. They have 4.0 to 4.7 liter motors, producing 175 to 240 hp at the flywheel.

 

Rear axles: The weak link in most rear axle setups is the shaft itself. C-clips, tapered bearings or full-float makes no difference in torsional strength, it's all about axle shaft diameter. Lockers add a huge load to shafts, so you'll see two numbers for each axle. That said:

 

MTS (maximum tire size):

 

Dana 35: 31's with a locker, 31's without a locker. (This axle doesn't care if it's loaded or empty. It just plain sucks.) Weak housing, thin tubes, and a small 7.5" gear don't add up to much. I've seen them successfully trussed with a 30 spline kit stand up to 33" tire, however.

 

29 spline Chrysler 8.25: 33's with a locker, 35's without a locker. I just can't trust a 29 spline shaft to 35's with a locker. MAYBE with upgraded shafts. Good stiff housing, though, which contributes greatly to carrier and ring gear strength. upgrade your 27 spline to 29, and you'll gain these benifits.

 

Dana 44: 35's with a locker, 36's without a locker. You can super-fy this axle with 33 and 35 spline shafts now, but the pinion becomes the weak link. They are a fairly good axle for most duty, but housing rigidity can become an issue with larger tires and high speed romps. Their tubes are not much larger than a 35. You could go 37's with 35 spline shafts if you kept your foot out of the throttle.

 

Ford 8.8: 35's with a locker, 36's without a locker. Very similar in strength to a 44. Carriers are a weak link when used in extreme environments. New carriers are being introduced to address the weak 2 pinion carrier design. Shafts are beefy at 31 spline, but no diameter upgrades are available. Pinion shaft is very beefy, same as a 9". Weld the tubes all the way around to the pumpkin, or they WILL spin. When used in high side load aplications, like desert romping at speed, cross shaft wear and bending can occur as the shaft slams into the crosspin due to the nature of a C-clip design.

 

Toyota 8": 35's with a locker, 36's without a locker. I'm always very impressed by Toyota quality, they are worlds ahead in quality control and tolerances. The Toy 8" uses the same shaft size as a Dana 44, 30 spline (different pitch however), but with a bunch more ground clearance.. The case is more rigid, and has a bit more hypoid offset too, which helps in R&P strength. The Toy guys flog this axle pretty hard with 37's, but I have seen enough breaks with that size tire under 22RE 4 cylinder power to make me keep the limits at D-44 levels for a much torquier 4.0.

 

Ford 9": Special mention for this axle. It is very stout. Shafts are available in 28, 31, 33, 35, 40 and maybe 46 spline. All are not created equal, though. A crappy OEM housing and center section will flex like a wet noodle. Do yourself a favor and get a good Strange nodular iron case and a nice stiff Currie Extra HD housing as a base. Built this way, and with 35 spline shafts, it has no trouble holding 39" tires. The pinion is way low on these, which is why most of us that run the deep rocks shun this axle. The pinion always seems to be spinning on rocks. The new series of high pinion cases made by Currie and TrueHi9 deserve special mention. The Currie unit is truly a Ford reverse spiral 8.8 from the front of an F-150/Expedition. They lack the third pinion support and hypoid offset of a 9" ring and pinion, and thus have limitations when used in the rear (remember, that's running on the coast side of the gear set). 35's is the limit on these, even though you can get it in 35 spline, it's a waste, because the ring and pinion are weaker than a 31 spline shaft. The TrueHi9 folks have addressed this by having Richmond cut a true 9" reverse spiral gearset for them. They have also included extra ring gear deflection support and a nodular housing for extra beef. 35 spline axles plus this case and you're good to go to 39's. This will be my next axle when I finally break my 8.8 (again).

 

Dana 60: Second to a Tru Hi9, the most desirable axle for a Jeep running 37's or larger. Can accept 30, 35, 40, and 46 spline shafts. Very stout cases and large tubes make this a desirable axle. The pinion is very large, the ring gear is 9.75", and the carrier bearings are huge. This is the axle you want if you want to run 40" tires, larger if you go with a 40 spline shaft. A high pinion unit will accept less than this due to running on the coast side of the ring gear, but still, it would have no trouble with 38's. Easily trimmed and weldable case make this axle fun for shaving and adding link mounts. Be careful with OEM 60's as they often came with 30 spline shafts that are no stronger than Dana 44 shafts. Early units came with even smaller diameter shafts.

 

Dana 70/Ford 10.25/14 bolt: This is the true one ton series of axles put out by the OEM's. They are fine and dandy, but the parts and gear ratios can be limited, bigger shafts are more difficult to run than a 60, and they tend to have more ring gear strength than is really necessary for a Jeep. The ring gear size comes into play when towing, not really in Jeeping. This makes them more difficult to trim, as the gear fills most of the case. These axles all have 1.5" diameter shafts, (35 and 31 spline due to difference in spline size), and as such, can be run with the same tires as a 60.

 

Rockwells: A fine axle. Difficult to fit, impossible to re-gear, and quite portly. They can never-the-less handle 44's on a non-steering axle in a rear application. The U-joint version of these axles is most desirable, and fine spline 2" diamter shaft upgrades are now available to help shafts (the weak link) live under high horsepower applications.

 

I haven't worked on the various portals out there, so I won't speak to them.

[35 Dollars]

This is the other thing I was talking about with regard to the 8.8, welding the tubes:

 

http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/ford8_8/

 

First hand experience from someone that has paid the price?: PRICELESS!

[mnkyboy]

In the test they used the semi float D60,the weakest of all D60s.

 

I would bet that a full float D60 is gonna be much stronger then an 8.8

[35 Dollars]

Found the front axle you need... http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/ptd/3147324463.html