Sir_Brando Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 The factory hid my winch so well that as long as I've had the truck I still haven'tfound it. I'm gonna have to go check mine to see if it came with the factory option now. But seriously. Maybe I missed it. What are the winch options going to be with this fabbed hidden system? Or is this not limiting options much at all. BTW I think there's enough of these types of projects on this site that we could start our own assm line and roll out some fresh Comanche's. Whaddya think? :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 Maybe I missed it. What are the winch options going to be with this fabbed hidden system? Or is this not limiting options much at all.: I am using the XRC8 as a base guide since it is an average size. About 6.5" x 6.5" x 21". This evening I tried a more integrated design approach after reading several topics on NAXJA about removing the front cross member. Seems to me that a solid bumper or winch plate can take place of the cross member if you extend plating down the frame rails. It is still pretty rough, but might be a good talking point I have also included bumper mounting points instead of using the existing bumper brackets. I noticed Detours Fabrication did a similar thing with their backbone system. By doing this I would add steel the to back side of the factory bumper to prove lateral strength for the D-Ring mounts and provide a mounting location for the roller fairlead. The bumper should only be pushed out 1" from the factory location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Nope, don't like the new version. Not one bit. I am a bit biased though. I already cut my front cross member out for a radiator to fit there. Both designs look great! The only thing that has me wondering is, How will you flip the lever to free spool with the winch sucked back that far on version 2.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 Nope, don't like the new version. Not one bit. I am a bit biased though. I already cut my front cross member out for a radiator to fit there. Both designs look great! The only thing that has me wondering is, How will you flip the lever to free spool with the winch sucked back that far on version 2.0? I actually took another look at your build before I sunk the winch into the cross member. I couldn't really tell from the pictures, but did you just run a chunk of steel from the bottom to each frame rail? How did you decide what the best way to reinforce the frame would be? As you can see I added some bracing behind the cross remaining member. Is that even necessary with the winch plate tying both frame rails together? To access the clutch lever, with either design really, I had planned on using some sort of detachable T-handle. One design I came across used an old socket welded to the cut lever. Then he used an old extension with a handle attched to the top. When its time to flip the clutch lever he pulls out the extension T-handle and clips the extension into the socket which was welded to the clutch lever. It seemed like a very clean and effective way to go about it. It might still be a challenge with the winch almost completely under the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Nope, don't like the new version. Not one bit. I am a bit biased though. I already cut my front cross member out for a radiator to fit there. Both designs look great! The only thing that has me wondering is, How will you flip the lever to free spool with the winch sucked back that far on version 2.0? I actually took another look at your build before I sunk the winch into the cross member. I couldn't really tell from the pictures, but did you just run a chunk of steel from the bottom to each frame rail? How did you decide what the best way to reinforce the frame would be? As you can see I added some bracing behind the cross remaining member. Is that even necessary with the winch plate tying both frame rails together? To access the clutch lever, with either design really, I had planned on using some sort of detachable T-handle. One design I came across used an old socket welded to year cut lever. Then he used an old extension with a handle attched to the top. When its time to flip the clutch lever he pulls out the extension T-handle and clips the extension into the socket which was welded to the clutch lever. It seemed like a very clean and effective way to go about it. It might still be a challenge with the winch almost completely under the radiator. I took a long look at the front of the ZJ donor. It has the front end opend up just like mine is now. The ZJ has a more robust top rad mount as well. Used that to base my designs off of. I like the T-handle idea as well for the free spool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Between pasture burning and clearing downed trees this weekend, I managed to get a foamcore mock up of the art built. (please excuse the cell phone picture, I forgot my camera) It is sitting about a 1/4" too low because of some flaring at the bottom of the cross member. It also appears I will not need to move the bumper forward for the winch to fit. I need to find a different winch to use and base my design from. There is no way a 21" long winch can have the drum centered on the rig when sandwitched between the steering box and inner passenger side frame rail. It may not be an issue at all in the grand scheme of things, but I will know its not right. Once I find a suitable winch, preliminary fitment and cuts will be made on my donor rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpnjim Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 :cheers: to this thread. Nope, don't like the new version. Not one bit. I am a bit biased though. I already cut my front cross member out for a radiator to fit there. Both designs look great! The only thing that has me wondering is, How will you flip the lever to free spool with the winch sucked back that far on version 2.0? Winch sits inside a chopped out crossmember in this bumper (tho this side view is before the winch was mounted), there's a hand hole in the bottom plate of the bumper to access the lever. Bumper sits out about as far as stock, but with the crossmember cut, it could go back further ( I wanted to protect the nose somewhat). Winch sits feet forward, and is offset somewhat to the passenger's side obvious in this picture:(not my Jeep) more info/pics here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Your XRC8 should fit behind the front cross member without cutting it out. I think it has the same dimensions as a M8000 which is what I am using. You'll need to relocate the horn, trim the fan shroud, and reroute the transmission cooler lines if you have an automatic. This gives you a hidden winch with no loss of approach angle. My approach angle is probably better than a stock bumper besides the d-ring mounts. I've now got a hawse fairlead which sticks out even less. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Willy, thanks for the pictures. That looks great! I do have a few questions for you. - does the winch sit close to center? - I notice it is sitting in there feet forward. Is the M 8000 designed to mount like that? - how do you access the free spool lever? - how is it mounted/supported? My guess is the bumper is the winch mount, somehow. Do you have any pictures or a build with pictures? I do not own the XRC8, I just used its dimensions. I would like to use one of the "rock" winches, but throwing down $1K on a winch is not for me. I know a M8000 can be had very reasonably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 I notice it is sitting in there feet forward. Is the M 8000 designed to mount like that? According to the M8000 manual, that is one of two ways that the winch is designed to be mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Willy, thanks for the pictures. That looks great! I do have a few questions for you. - does the winch sit close to center? - I notice it is sitting in there feet forward. Is the M 8000 designed to mount like that? - how do you access the free spool lever? - how is it mounted/supported? My guess is the bumper is the winch mount, somehow. Do you have any pictures or a build with pictures? I do not own the XRC8, I just used its dimensions. I would like to use one of the "rock" winches, but throwing down $1K on a winch is not for me. I know a M8000 can be had very reasonably. It is slightly offset to the passenger side. Yes, the M8000 is designed to mount feet forward or down. Most common winches are designed to be mounted feet forward or down. It is feet backward that most are not designed for - which has always made me wonder what was different about the factory option to allow it to mount like that. Maybe because they only used a 6,000 pound winch they did not have to worry about the forces stretching the bolt. The free spool section of the winch is clockable. I rotated it so that the spool lever is pointing straight down. It is right next to the steering box. Just reach under the bumper and rotate the lever. Check out the build of my '88. Starting on page 4 there are several pictures of the bumper and winch plate build. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 (not hot linked intentionally) This image answered most of my questions Now I am itching to get home to try out a different scheme that is floating around in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Did a little bit of work this evening. It keeps getting more and more simplified with each design. Based off of $500MJ's brackets, reason46's bumper design and the JCR tie-in brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Is the entire thing one piece with some type of slot for the unirail ends - that sheet metal that the stock bumper brackets bolt to? Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Willy- in my mind it ends up as a single piece, welded together not bolted together. I tried to maintain the winch plate with few cuts and welds needed. I had thought about simply cutting the stock bumper tabs off, but I scrapped that idea because that only leaves 2 bolts holding the passenger side plate/tie-in on and it would eliminate 4 solid points of contact with the uni-frame rails. I utilized the sway bar mounts and extend a bracket/strap from the bottom of the frame under the stock bumper tabs. My thought was that these straps would be welded to the side plate/tie-in. The top portion of the winch plate would be welded directly to the side plates in front of the stock bumper tabs. A similar design on the bottom of the winch plate ties directly into the sway bar bracket/strap, which in turn is welded to the side plate. This results in the sides of the winch plate not being tied to or supported by the frame at all. My solution was to sandwich the stock bumper tabs with a vertical support connecting the top and bottom of the winch plate, welded in of course. This support may get nuts welded to the inside of it for the stock bumper bracket bolts to grab a hold of. As I mentioned at the start of this thread, this is the first time I have attempted anthing like this. If you see or are concerned about a flaw, let me know! :thwak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Have you tweaked the bolt holes yet to make sure that they all line up? I'd be happy to check your measurements against mine, if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Have you tweaked the bolt holes yet to make sure that they all line up? I'd be happy to check your measurements against mine, if you want. That is on the plate for this weekend. I really hope the driver and passenger side are the same with the driver only having more holes. My pasenger frame rail was pushed in by the previous owner quite abit on the outside. To be repaired by the body shop. I will be sure to share my findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Have you tweaked the bolt holes yet to make sure that they all line up? I'd be happy to check your measurements against mine, if you want. That is on the plate for this weekend. I really hope the driver and passenger side are the same with the driver only having more holes. My pasenger frame rail was pushed in by the previous owner quite abit on the outside. To be repaired by the body shop. I will be sure to share my findings. The three front bumper holes should be the same on the passenger and drivers side. I have not confirmed that the hole that is WAY back there are in the same location on both sides, but I would suspect that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Just a question to help make the bumper a little easier to make. Have you thought about making the d-ring mounts closer to the frame? This would eliminate that pipe that goes across the front of the bumper, which could be an issue with the fairlead rollers if it sits too close (which it looks like it does). Also, is there any mounting points for the fairlead itself? From the pictures, it doesn't look like there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Just a question to help make the bumper a little easier to make. Have you thought about making the d-ring mounts closer to the frame? This would eliminate that pipe that goes across the front of the bumper, which could be an issue with the fairlead rollers if it sits too close (which it looks like it does). Also, is there any mounting points for the fairlead itself? From the pictures, it doesn't look like there is. You raise a good point. However, I am not building a winch bumper just a winch plate. This whole setup will be (hopefully) invisible with the factory bumper skin hiding it all. I borrowed the D-ring mount measurements from $500MJ who built a set of d-ring mounts that work with the factory bumper. I plan to reinforce the factory bumper and tie it directly to the side plates. The reinforced bumper will hold the fairlead. At least this is my hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I have not confirmed that the hole that is WAY back there are in the same location on both sides, but I would suspect that they are. Yes, they are in the same location. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Preliminary side plate mounting locations. I based the mounting locations from the front-bottom bumper bracket bolt at the front of the frame. The actual plate needs a bit of refining so it is not dimensioned. Tried a cutout on some leftover matte board. Image Not Found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I think just about every dimension, but one, is anywhere from 1/8" to 1/16" different than mine. What size are your holes? I used 1/2" diameter to allow some flexibility and movement, but they were pretty spot on and I feel confident I could reduce the size closer to the diameter of the bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Is it the back bumper bracket bolt hole that is different? For whatever reason I had the hardest time pulling dimensions off of that one. :fs2: Would you mind posting or Emailing your findings? I designed it with 1/2" holes, but drilled 3/8" for the photo since it was the largest drill bit I could quickly find. I will note that both of my front frame rails are tweaked a little. I did not realize the driver side was tweaked until I set a straight edge to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrawombat Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Is it the back bumper bracket bolt hole that is different? For whatever reason I had the hardest time pulling dimensions off of that one. :fs2: Would you mind posting or Emailing your findings? I designed it with 1/2" holes, but drilled 3/8" for the photo since it was the largest drill bit I could quickly find. I will note that both of my front frame rails are tweaked a little. I did not realize the driver side was tweaked until I set a straight edge to it. It's just about every dimension lol I'll send you what I've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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