mnkyboy Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I had no trimming with stock bump stops and no rubbing even when bouncing around offroad. after i added the winch bumper i did experience occasional slight rubbing on the flairs as you said at the back of the wheel wells. Here is my 2.5L MJ bone stock with 31X10.50X15s on it. I don't know that it would rock crawl like that but i took it on a few trails and had no rubbing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Here is my 2.5L MJ bone stock with 31X10.50X15s on it. I don't know that it would rock crawl like that but i took it on a few trails and had no rubbing issues. Wow, those tires look pretty big on a non-lifted MJ. 'Course I don't want to get too big, since it's only a 4-cyl under the hood, but I don't plan on doing any off-roading other than beach sand or fire trail roads. Looks like with those 31s there's a lot less suspension travel available, but again, for the kind of driving I plan on doing, that should be okay. Seems like 31s will work, but might rub on the LCAs, depends on the offset of the wheels. When I'm due for new tires, I'll think about 30s or 31s, in AT tread design as opposed to MT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Got some tire calculations done, and it looks like my choices are going to be: 265/70, 30x9.5, or 31x10.50 Seems that the 265/70 will be about 1.5" wider in overall diameter than the 225/75's I have on there now, with the speedo reading less than 3mph slower. At the other end, 31x10.50 will be 2.5" wider in OD, and read a little over 5mph slower. I'm concerned with the 31's rubbing, so may compromise with 30's or 265/70's. I'm looking at the General Grabber AT2, which I think Tire Rack has for less than $110 each, which is MUCH less than BFG AT's. I also like the Yokohama Geolander ATs, and the Dunlop Radial Rover. But from the reviews, seems that the General Grabbers will be at the top of my list. I have 15x7 Wrangler alloys, not sure what the offset is though (35mm?). Seems that there's some disagreement over whether or not 31's on these types of stock alloys would work, i.e. they'll clear the fender flares but could rub at full lock. The one picture of the stock white MJ with the 31's looks great, even though it's aftermarket rims, so maybe there's hope those would work on my MJ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I have 15x7 Wrangler alloys, not sure what the offset is though (35mm?). Seems that there's some disagreement over whether or not 31's on these types of stock alloys would work, i.e. they'll clear the fender flares but could rub at full lock. Define "work." Wrangler rims are the same as Cherokee and Comanche rims. There is no disagreement as to what will happen if you put 31x10.50s on those rims on a stock MJ. They WILL tuck up inside the sheet metal and flares with no problems. They WILL rub on the lower control arms when the steering is turned to full lock. To put that in perspective, with a stock truck on stock tires the steering has 3-1/2 turns lock-to-lock. Running 31s, I lose less than 1/4 turn at each extreme, so my steering is reduced to 3 turns NON-lock to NON-lock. 97.32 percent of the time it makes no difference at all. The only time it makes any difference is when trying to turn sharply to get into a tight parking space. Changing to aftermarket rims with less backspacing eliminates the rubbing on the control arms, but creates problems with the tires hitting the flares and/or sheet metal. Personally, I'll deal with the minimal inconvenience of rubbing the lower control arms rather than bash up my bodywork and maybe cut a tire any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Not to hijack... but.... I picked up a set of used Cooper Discoveries for the XJ. They are 265x75x15 size. Now this has a 3" lift so the OA diameter is not any problem. But they are quite wide and I mounted them on stock Jeep 10 spokes. The truck is now running 31x10.5x15 BFG AT's, but they are quite worn with over 60,000 miles on them. Eagle or any one, have you tried this size/setup?? CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I picked up a set of used Cooper Discoveries for the XJ. They are 265x75x15 size. Now this has a 3" lift so the OA diameter is not any problem. But they are quite wide and I mounted them on stock Jeep 10 spokes. The truck is now running 31x10.5x15 BFG AT's, but they are quite worn with over 60,000 miles on them.Eagle or any one, have you tried this size/setup?? I don't think I've even seen a 265/75-15. Based on the numbers, it should be 10.4" wide at the sidewall and 30.4x" in diameter ... in other words, almost exactly the same as a 31x10.50-15. I'm running 31s on the '88 XJ (with no lift) right now ... which is why/how I speak so authoritatively on how they fit and where they rub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thanks man, Standing next to the 31" AT's they are almost a full inch taller and everybit as wide. the Coopers are also mounted to a 15x7 rim and the 31" BFG's are on a AR 589 alum 15x8 rim!!! They get balanced Tuesday and we will see Tuesday night... CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 metric sized tires tend to be accurate. tires listed in inches tend to be undersized a bit. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 metric sized tires tend to be accurate. tires listed in inches tend to be undersized a bit. :dunno: True enough ... but most "31s" tend to run about 30-1/2" in diameter. The 265s may be taller because they're on narrower rims, so the sidewalls are squeezed in a bit. Plus, of course, they have full tread. My 31s are on 7" Jeep rims and they work on the XJ at stock height (subject to the usual caveat about LCA rubbing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 metric sized tires tend to be accurate. tires listed in inches tend to be undersized a bit. :dunno: True enough ... but most "31s" tend to run about 30-1/2" in diameter. The 265s may be taller because they're on narrower rims, so the sidewalls are squeezed in a bit. Plus, of course, they have full tread. My 31s are on 7" Jeep rims and they work on the XJ at stock height (subject to the usual caveat about LCA rubbing). Eagle - I'm deferring to your comments about how 31's on stock Jeep alloys will clear the fenders, but only slightly rub the LCAs at full lock. Been doing some research, figured out WJ LCAs are off a Grand Cherokee, and they have that slight "S" shape that should take care of any rubbing. The writeup that I found was done by some guy in Australia, and the only issue he had was the ends of the WJ LCAs are wider than stock MJ's, so the brackets had to be pried apart by a few mm in order to make them work. But he got them to work, also had to use slightly longer bolts, but that looks to be about it. I found a pair of WJ LCAs on eBay for $85, which includes S&H, as opposed to $75 each at the local Advance Auto Parts store. Figure if I'm going to run 31's, might as well get the WJ LCAs and do it right. I posted a thread about this same thing on the local 4-wheelers website, still waiting for some feedback. But for now, I'm on the hunt for some WJ LCAs (99-04), and once I get then installed, will look hard at some 31s. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 that aussie guy isn't the only one rocking the WJ arms. I installed them on my 90 (stock height with 31s). my writeup is here (bottom of page one): viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1556 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 that aussie guy isn't the only one rocking the WJ arms. I installed them on my 90 (stock height with 31s). my writeup is here (bottom of page one): viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1556 Based on your writeup, I think I'll have to make sure the shapes of the ends of the WJ arms mimic the MJ ones, so they don't bind or stop after they're bolted up. I knew it wasn't going to be as easy as I thought, lol! I don't have an impact wrench or grinder of any sort, so it looks like I'll be supporting one of the local auto maint shops when I get my WJ LCAs. I'll make sure to go to the local hardware store and get new, longer mounting bolts, washers, and nuts, in case they need to "finesse" the new WJ LCAs into the old MJ brackets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Everyone should own a grinder. I used it more than anything else for metal shaping in the buildup of my truck. my current one cost me all of $10 on sale at Harbor Freight. No good excuse not to own one, even a small one. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 If you don't have a grinder, you could probably do the same job with a hacksaw and flat file. Thimk -- you must know someone who has a bench grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Think -- you must know someone who has a bench grinder. Eh, I use the bench grinder maybe once a year. The angle grinder comes out at least once a week. it's just so darn useful. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The Aussie guy spread the brackets apart and got them to fit (at least the fronts), instead of grinding down on the wider WJ bushings. I'd rather go that route first, and see if I can get them to fit. It looks like the bend in those LCAs will give a set of 31s the room they need to not rub. I ordered a set of new WJ LCAs off eBay for $84, should have them in a few days. Checked some of the local yards and auto parts stores beforehand, and they pretty much wanted $75 for each side, so getting both for $84 off eBay seemed like a pretty good deal. So once those puppies are on, I'll start my search for a set of 31s, most likely the local Craig's List... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 didn't he do that to an XJ? I don't see how you can bend the lower control arm bracket on the body side of an MJ. It's pretty darn beefy. Go by a cheap angle grinder and have some fun with it. :D and keep some water on hand to cool things down during the process if you're worried about hurting the rubber. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 didn't he do that to an XJ? I don't see how you can bend the lower control arm bracket on the body side of an MJ. It's pretty darn beefy. Go by a cheap angle grinder and have some fun with it. :D and keep some water on hand to cool things down during the process if you're worried about hurting the rubber. :thumbsup: Yeah, his article was about putting WJ LCAs on his XJ. He was able to get the fronts of the LCAs to fit by spreading the brackets on the front axle. But he didn't have stock frame brackets, so he had to do some cutting and welding to get the back ends of the LCAs to fit. I'll crawl under the MJ once the new LCAs get here, so I'll have a better idea of what's in store. There's this repair shop a few miles away that's worked on some of my vehicles. I'll probably get an estimate from them, but let them know some "minor modifications" might be necessary in order to get them to fit. I'll eventually get a bench grinder, just don't want to experiment on these new parts for my first time using one, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 It doesn't get any easier. :D ya just grind down the sides of the steel bushings until they are flush with the rubber. done! get yourself one of these: and your world will change for the better. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Okay, got the WJ LCAs installed, and now I'm shopping around for tires. So I look on the local Craigs List, and find a guy selling a set of '04 Wrangler "Ravine" alloys, 15x8, 25.4 offset, 5x114.3 bolt pattern, with 30x90.50 Goodyear Wrangler GSAs mounted (38K miles), and he's asking $275 for the set of 5 wheels/tires (http://norfolk.craigslist.org/pts/1488502515.html). I'm VERY tempted to get these, as opposed to a new set of 31s on my 15x7 Jeep alloys. My questions are as follows: 1) This is the same bolt pattern that I currently have, correct? (5x114.3 = 5x4.5?) 2) The width and offset won't create fender clearance issues? 3) The 30" tire on an 8" rim, as opposed to a 31" tire on a 7" rim, shouldn't have any rubbing issues? Whaddaya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Yeah, his article was about putting WJ LCAs on his XJ. He was able to get the fronts of the LCAs to fit by spreading the brackets on the front axle. But he didn't have stock frame brackets, so he had to do some cutting and welding to get the back ends of the LCAs to fit. I'll crawl under the MJ once the new LCAs get here, so I'll have a better idea of what's in store. There's this repair shop a few miles away that's worked on some of my vehicles. I'll probably get an estimate from them, but let them know some "minor modifications" might be necessary in order to get them to fit. I'll eventually get a bench grinder, just don't want to experiment on these new parts for my first time using one, lol! I don't understand your thinking. Haven't you ever heard of the theory that you should ALWAYS hack on the cheapest part first? I lower control arm (or two) is a helluva lot cheaper than a unibody chassis. Instead of paying the shop beaucoup $$$ to mangle your chassis, why not just pay them to narrow the control arms to MJ width? K.I.S.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I don't understand your thinking. Haven't you ever heard of the theory that you should ALWAYS hack on the cheapest part first? I lower control arm (or two) is a helluva lot cheaper than a unibody chassis. Instead of paying the shop beaucoup $$$ to mangle your chassis, why not just pay them to narrow the control arms to MJ width? K.I.S.S. The shop that installed my LCAs is very well known for their 4x4 expertise in these parts, and they didn't have too much trouble installing the WJ LCAs. They did grind down the bushings to MJ width, to narrow them enough to fit into the stock brackets, and used new mounting hardware. They also had to grind down a bit of the brackets themselves, because the ends of the of the new LCAs were running into some binding issues when they were at full drop. But the mechanic came out into the waiting room and told me about all this, because like you said, he didn't want to hack up any part of the unibody beyond what was needed to make the new LCAs work like they're supposed to. Took half an hour longer than estimated, but they're on now, so that's one less modification I'll have to worry about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 After getting numerous new tire quotes, and searching the local Craig's List for tires, and reading tire reviews on Tire Rack, I pulled the trigger and got a set of new Firestone Destination ATs, in 31x10.50-15. Wow, what a difference in looks from the stock 225/75 Michelins! They don't come anywhere near rubbing on those WJ LCAs I had installed, and there was just some minor lower inner fender trimming I had to do on the front driver's side. Looks like when the PO put the fender flares back on after the truck got painted, that part didn't sit completely flat against the fender, so an inside lower corner piece stuck out just enough to barely catch the tire. So I trimmed it back, and no issues now. Good thing was I got the tires mounted and balanced, with road hazard warranty and alignment check, for less than $500, on a 90-days same as cash plan. Can't beat that with a stick, lol! Thanks to everyone who built up my confidence that a set of 31s will work with the WJ LCAs. I'm definitely a happy camper now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socal1200r Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 There's a guy selling a set of 3" XJ lift coils on the local 4wd forum for $60. I'm tempted to get them, but my next question would be how to lift the back to compensate for the 3" coils in the front? I thought I saw some Chevy spring shackles on another thread somewhere? I've heard add-a-leafs are not the way to go, makes the ride too stiff? Also, would I have to get new shocks with 3" of lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 coils are only the beginning. coils shocks trackbar lower control arms longer brake lines lifting the rear (AAL or new leafs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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