jeeptruck86 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I can't believe this. Hoping for the best, but I have a feeling it won't be good. If I can limp home from work today I'll spend the evening on my back staring at the undercarriage. I think I'm going to get my visa # tattoed to my backside so I don't have to pull my wallet out and pay after I bend over. :ack: Edit: After talking to a couple of buddies I'm going to try bleeding it and hope that worst case scenario it's an issue with the slave cylinder. It's external on my 86 with the AX4 so it shouldn't be too painful. I guess worst case is a new slave, around $60. Wish me luck. Oh yeah and GO PENS! Get out your brooms boys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Have you bled properly? Bleeding the externals isn't quite the same as doing the internals. You must remove the slave cylinder, and using a special tool(or an old exhaust clamp and some bolts) completely compress the cylinder while you're bleeding. If you don't do this, air will most likely get-or stay-trapped in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 I'm going to try that tonight. A good friend loaned me his old car to get back and forth to work for a few days. Here's to good friends! :cheers: Thanks for the info. I've read so much about clutches, flywheels, bleeding, masters, slaves.. it's all mashed together in my head. Sorry to tech up the Pub. I was mainly looking for moral support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 What are the symptoms? Got any oil running down the back of the engine block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Yeah actually, I do. It has a slight crack in the valve cover that causes some seeping. I replaced the gasket but it still leaks some. I am planning on fixing it while it's down with the clutch. Oil as a contributing factor? You have my attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 If oil can get into the bellhousing, it can get on the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 It doesn't feel like the clutch is slipping. For info purposes we are talking about an 86 2.5l lwb with an ax4. It feels like it's not disengaging and it's wanting to pull the truck at all times. I had to turn it off to get it into 1st then when restarting it the starter is pulling the truck even witht he clutch on the floor. Pedal feel is good, normal actually. We replaced the clutch about a year and a half ago. Didn't touch the flywheel. My Dad was helping me and he's pretty knowledagble. He seemed to think the flywheel looked okay. So we left it alone. Afterwards, I had some issues with vacuum that really gave me idling and throttle response problems. When hot, the clutch would chatter when trying to pull out. Especiallyin stop and go traffic. If I would rev it up a bit it I could pull out smooth. Where in the past I used to be able to pull out at pretty low rpm. Got the vacuum problem fixed about a month or so ago (under the battery tray, doh) Drove nicely for a while so long as I didn't try to lug away from a stop. Now, it won't go into first from a stop, is hard to get into 2-3-4 and you have to match revs. Basically I'm shifting without the clutch. Funny thing is, when it first started on my way to work yesterday, it was impossible to get into gear, then it got easier for a few minutes, then hard again. I'm going to bleed the slave the right way tonight. But something tells me that it's deeper than that. I'm thinking all of that chattter may have undone a piece of the clutch disc and it's getting jammed between the disc and the flywheel and won't let the clutch fully disengage. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think your over worrying yourself.. Bleed the air from the system and check for any clutch fluid leaks.. I bet its one of the two. Worst case is the slave is bad or the mc is bad.. you will be able to tell when bleeding. Get you a long piece of clear tubing from Lowes make sure its the right size diameter, cause I'm thinking the clutch slave bleeder is real small. open the bleeder valve push one end of the tubing on the bleeder valve, then run the other end up into a cup. have someone pump the clutch and keep you eye on the fluid level in your mc. when you get clean fluid pumping place the end of tubing in the mc and pump a few more times. If you still getting air bubbles then you have a leak somewhere. If you pump and pump and no fluid comes up the tube then the MC is bad, if after all is good and you tighten the bleeder valve and still don't work your slave is bad.. If you bleed and your slave moves but you still don't have clutch then something mechanically wrong inside the bell housing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Does it have the little plastic cap on the end of the pushrod for the slave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 The clutch chatter you write about from a dead stop is caused from "heat spots" on the flywheel. I too have been dealing with this for 3 years because I opt out not to replace the flywheel :doh: And, No, the fly wheel should NOT be re-ground, it Must be replaced with new. Another thing to consider is the fluid line from the master cyl to the slave, it's part steel, part rubber, and any time you replace a slave or master, for the $18 part, it's a good cheap replacement item. 20 year old rubber lines are not like new lines, they swell up and collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Bled everything last night and still no clutch so out came the trans. Using air tools this time made everything much faster! The flywheel looks like new. Seriously it is perfectly smooth. No scoring, no dark and light spots. The flywheel, disc, and pressure plate were all dry. Oil was all over the bellhousing though, inside and out so I wouldn't say it never got on the parts, it just isn't on there now. The clutch has two broken springs (CULPRIT) and these could be from the chatter, or maybe I've been too hard on the old girl. She is a "race truck" after all. j/k So I'm in the process of looking for parts. I have two questions. Is the flywheel resurfacing no-no related specifically to 4.0's or to all xj/mj trannies in general? Also, are there any circumstances under which replacing the clutch disc only would be logical or sensical? The new clutch was installed in Dec. of '07. It's a year and a half old. The pressure plate, throwout, pilot and flywheel all look completely fine. No bent fingers on the P.P., the hydraulic stuff all seems to check out. Could I have gotten a faulty clutch disc and nothing else? Would I be clinically insane to replace it alone? Please don't flame me, I'm a little burnt out as it is. This is partly a financial decision, and partly a practicality one. I don't want to replace parts that aren't broken if I can get away with it. This is a DD, not a trail rig and it doesn't see alot of abuse. Please share your thoughts. Sincerely, Cheep in Charlotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Does it have the little plastic cap on the end of the pushrod for the slave? Sorry, didn't mean to ignore you. Yeah it's still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdesigns Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Call these guys up.. http://carolinaclutch.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Regardless of how you tackle this, I strongly recommend testing the clutch setup before you put the tranny back in. This is yet another reason why externals slaves rock and internals don't. 1. Remove the bellhousing from the transmission. 2. Using the alignment tool, bolt the clutch and PP to the flywheel. 3. Keeping the throwout arm and bearing inside the bellhousing, bolt the bellhousing to the motor. 4. Attach slave cylinder. 5. Put the clutch alignment tool inside the clutch plate. You shouldn't be able to turn it. 6. Have someone inside the vehicle push in the clutch. You should be able to turn the clutch with the alignment tool. If this doesn't work, DON'T PUT THE TRANS BACK IN. Having the actual transmission in there will not change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Thanks for the tip! I might give that a try. Certainly a fool proof method of making sure the hydraulics are all working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Update: I have yet to cry. I am going to gamble. We're replacing the clutch disc only. I know this sounds crazy, but I am going to take the risk. Wish me well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 What do you think is wrong with the disk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 As far as just replacing the clutch disk, that's not a problem, I've got 3 years and 15K miles on mine with just the disk replaced. The flywheel on a 4.0 can not be re-ground, it has a concave grind to the face from the OEM, I don't know 2.5's enough to even guest on that one. Some 2.5 experts can answer that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 What do you think is wrong with the disk? Besides the broken springs? :smart: Well, the rough idling and poor throttle response from the vacuum problems made the truck hard to drive for a while. I think that coupled with the occasional, mild to medium abuse on my part caused the springs to say uncle. I plan on scuffing the pp and flywheel with 180 grit cloth before reassembling. Then it's just hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Yah, I guess broken springs would be a good reason to replace it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Personally, I would get the full clutch kit for it. That way you completely rule out bad fingers on the PP and you shouldn't have to pull it apart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thanks for all of your help guys. It went back in yesterday (albeit with some mild drama). It'd be nice to have a lift to work on it, or even a garage for that matter. I meant to take a few pics of the AX4 while it was out but I guess if you've seen an AX5 then you've seen this too. Rolled the dice and went disc only. First drive seemed promising. Good feel, no chatter. I tried to go far enough to let it heat up a little and everything seemed to work great. :banana: As a matter of fact, I can't remember it ever shifting from 1st to R repeatedly without grinding so that's cause for celebration right there. I used to have to go 4th to R to get it to go in smoothly. Good stuff. I'll update in about a week or so to let yawll know if it's still in one piece. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Good to hear it worked out for ya :thumbsup: I strongly suggest that if you have problems with it again, you replace everything in there. And yes, you're right. There is literally no way to distinguish between and AX-4 and an AX-5 without moving the shifter. :rotfl2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yea, good to hear that just the clutch disk solved your problems :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeptruck86 Posted June 1, 2009 Author Share Posted June 1, 2009 If everything goes right I'll be moving the shifter alot. Yeah, if things come unglued again it'll be all new. I'd probably even spring for a new flywheel and an AX5 at that point. I've had enough of laying on the driveway for now so hopefully it holds together. Man, I'm so happy to have my little truck back. I might even give her a bath to celebrate. And NO, pictures of her all wet and covered in bubbles will not be availiable. :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now