Incommando

Currently the MK (Patriot/Compass) & the KK (Last of the Liberties) are 5x4.5. As above I have read the the KL Cherokee is 5x110 and uses an odd hub size. FIAT...go figure.

So while we are here... I picked up the factory aux electric fan to supplement the mechanical only fan my non A/C '91 OBD1 4.0 has now. Is the wiring present under the air box or somewhere to install this and will the ECM trigger it by temp as I do not have A/C? Wiring it directly to a switch/relay or to a cheap thermostatic control would be OK,too.

Older? Sigh. Older would be the CJ and early FSJ's 5x5.5 or the 6x5.5 of the later FSJ's. Whippersnappers... lol. The XJ/MJ/YJ/ZJ/TJ/KJ/KK/MK all use the 5 x 4.5" (5x114.3) lug pattern. I am not sure but I am 50/50 that the WJ went to 5x5 ( CONFIRMED: WJ = 5x5) and the WK & JK are for sure 5x5. I am not sure what the Fiat Dart KL 200 Cherokee station wagon is but rumor has it that they have an unusual hub size & bolt pattern of 5x110mm x 5x114.3 mm.

Thanks to 88whitemanche for providing some additional pics. I suck at both remembering to take the pics and then my cell takes poor pics anyway. Here is a comparison of the stock pieces and the V8 ZJ pieces and the stockers: And here is a better shot of the new pieces installed:

It turns out that on my first wheeling trip with the MJ I slightly bent the tie rod adjusting sleeve. This, along with pulling the threads out of the tie rod adjusting sleeve, is a very common problem as the factory really cheaped out on the design of the long hollow adjusting sleeve and two short tie rod ends especially considering the fairly exposed location of this part. One solution is a heavy duty steering kit. Many companies offer some version of this but they can be expensive. Some of these also flip the TRE's on top of the knuckle. These require varying degrees of modification to install. For some these kits may be the way to go but again they can be pricey and/or time consuming to install. Here is one option for $480. http://www.4wheelparts.com/Brakes-Steering/Currectlync-Heavy-Duty-Tie-Rod-System.aspx?t_c=65&t_s=430&t_pt=6195&t_pn=curce-9701&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=product&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gclid=CjwKEAjwgMieBRCB3bqB94e9lD4SJABW3sTNGb9ew9C41ITXormQ6HKmj9A9-ir3KBmsrCJHfC4T6BoCZkjw_wcB . But 99% of the time the drag link is not an issue and the stock piece is already a solid bar like what is included in most of the kits. Really only the tie rid assembly is different unless you do the fab work to flip the TRE's. To just replace the weak hollow assembly here is an option: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/omix-ada-tie-rod-long-kit-zj-v8-18054.09/10186043-P . It is the factory set up from a Grand Cherokee ZJ with a V8 . This gets you the heavy duty solid bar tir rod assembly with the much stronger adjusting sleeve. Using Advance Auto's ever-present online discounts and free shipping this kit this kit cost me $96.04 shipped. It includes everything that you need and is 100% bolt-on. Just remember to do your tape measure alignment to set the tow when you are done. This was a 15 minute job and it appears that the new assembly is bent and that it would clear many aftermarket diff covers that would hit the stock bar.

It turns out that on my first wheeling trip with the MJ I slightly bent the tie rod adjusting sleeve. This, along with pulling the threads out of the tie rod adjusting sleeve, is a very common problem as the factory really cheaped out on the design of the long hollow adjusting sleeve and two short tie rod ends especially considering the fairly exposed location of this part. One solution is a heavy duty steering kit. Many companies offer some version of this but they can be expensive. Some of these also flip the TRE's on top of the knuckle. These require varying degrees of modification to install. For some these kits may be the way to go but again they can be pricey and/or time consuming to install. Here is one option for $480. http://www.4wheelparts.com/Brakes-Steering/Currectlync-Heavy-Duty-Tie-Rod-System.aspx?t_c=65&t_s=430&t_pt=6195&t_pn=curce-9701&utm_source=google&utm_medium=froogle&utm_campaign=product&emlprox=out&ppcfon=1&gclid=CjwKEAjwgMieBRCB3bqB94e9lD4SJABW3sTNGb9ew9C41ITXormQ6HKmj9A9-ir3KBmsrCJHfC4T6BoCZkjw_wcB . But 99% of the time the drag link is not an issue and the stock piece is already a solid bar like what is included in most of the kits. Really only the tie rid assembly is different unless you do the fab work to flip the TRE's. To just replace the weak hollow assembly here is an option: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/omix-ada-tie-rod-long-kit-zj-v8-18054.09/10186043-P . It is the factory set up from a Grand Cherokee ZJ with a V8 . This gets you the heavy duty solid bar tie rod assembly with the much stronger adjusting sleeve. Using Advance Auto's ever-present online discounts and free shipping this kit this kit cost me $96.04 shipped. It includes everything that you need and is 100% bolt-on. Just remember to do your tape measure alignment to set the tow when you are done. This was a 15 minute job.

The long side f a CAD housing may be marginally stronger but I would question whether the ease of just bolting in another unit versus this process makes that upgrade worth it?

Properly equipped an MJ can tow 5,000 pounds per the owners manuals for my '88 & my '91. Do not exceed the specs and you should be fine. The recommendations are the 4.0, auto, tranny cooler, "big ton" axle, heavy duty cooling (aux fan)& power steering. Unless the Big Ton includes an unmentioned upgrade from the 3.55's of the 4.0/auto then 4.10's would help but not be required. I would be comfortable with an 8.25 rear swap. The dual diaphragm booster upgrade would be a good idea but it is for all MJ's. People flip out over towing but it is perfectly safe to the 5,000 # trailer/9,200 # GCWR. For a 5th wheel the GCWR would be more important due to the hitch location eliminating tongue weight issues which should also increase the trailer weight capacity as long as the overall weight is not exceeded.

I didn't know how far it was for you. Definitely not worth traveling for. 125/90/16.

Clean it off and see his long it takes to reappear.

Easy hill <div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script> <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/sabrina.greene.106">Sabrina Greene</a>.</div></div> <div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script> <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/sabrina.greene.106">Sabrina Greene</a>.</div></div> Went left Poor little Wrangler could not follow me Left the TJ's impressed

Pic time! The starting point: 225,000 mile '91 2wd SWB MJ ( I did a 4wd conversion at the same time as the lift) on 31" tires but with a good amount of body trimming and TJ flares due to rust removal: Rear SOA in place/front at stock height Lift all on..just needs finished Never say finished with a Jeep

The plan: -Remove the front control arms, shocks, drive shaft, track bar and brake line. I started soaking things down with PB Blaster about a week before I began dis-assembly. You are able to replace the stock shocks, springs, track bar, control arms,etc.... at this time. I am using an uber cheap hockey puck bump stop system ( http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/hockey-puck-bump-stops-1096774/ )so I drilled the lower coil buckets for the bolt at this time. Replace with the lift goodies. I also took this chance to upgrade the front tie rod to the solid bar version from a V8 ZJ. The factory tie rod is a weak link and this is a worthy upgrade. You can spend hundreds on an aftermarket steering system if you feel it is needed for your usage. - If you are re-using your rear stock axle remove it by cutting u-bolts and removing brake lines/cables and shocks. You will need to cut off the factory spring perches. I 4.5" angle grinder worked well for me. - Position axle back under MJ with the unwelded perches placed on top of the tube and rest the springs on them. Use the u-bolts and nuts to Mosley hold the whole thing together. Measure for proper position of the axle under the truck side-to-side & forward-and-back. Doing so in an x-pattern and from multiple points helps. Set your pinion angle. Remember that for drive shafts with a single u-joint at each end the input yoke on the axle should be parallel to the output yoke angle on the transfer case. -Weld the new perches and shock tabs onto the axle. Use new u-bolts to attach axle. - Cycle your suspension even it it is using floor jacks. Measure the distance from the upper and lower mounts in three positions: fully compressed, at ride height, and at full droop. Order your shocks accordingly. Remember that the proper shock is dependent on whether you have an LWB or SWB, use the stock upper mounts or fab a mount, and where you position your shock tabs. I welded my tabs onto the axle tube as low as possible while still keeping them above the bottom line of the tube to keep them from dragging on anything. I also took this chance to ditch the load sensor thingy and run all new rear soft and hard lines. - If you are swapping out the rear axle you will need either a donor shaft from a truck with the t-case and rear axle combo that you are using or you will need a custom drive shaft. Remember that it is much cheaper to have a longer shaft shortened and re-balanced ( $85 here) versus having a custom shaft made or having one "lengthened." -set the pinion angle for your front shaft per this picture: Follow this link to driveline geometry 101: http://www.4xshaft.com/ Getting the proper angle for your front u-joints and camber can be a compromise at this amount of lift. There may not be a set angle in degrees to get you the proper adjustments to prevent death wobble and provide a smooth, quiet, long lived u-joint drive shaft. Using the Tom Woods chart above I pointed the axle yoke at the t-case output yoke and verified that the angle of the axle yoke was the same as the angle of the drive shaft.I have zero bump steer, death wobble, or other shenanigans even at well above the posted speed limit in an area noted for lousy pavement and potholes. - Measuring tape align the front end as detailed various places online or by using this tutorial before driving to the alignment shop for a quality alignment. I am fortunate and was to skip the professional alignment shop as the buddy helping me has built numerous tube-chassis race cars for both drag racing and circle track. He has a couple of jigs and the know-how to get a darn good alignment the first time. Yes this is over-simplified. If you need more instruction spend as much time as possible educating yourself or hire/bribe a competent mechanic to do it for you. No suspension work and especially something of this magnitude should be attempted by anyone who doesn't know what they are doing. It is up to you to know whether you do or don't.

For the rear SOA I ordered the Barnes 4wd (great products & great service but RuffStuff would have done just as well) simple axle swap kit as listed above. It is for a D44 as that is the kit that offers the axle tube options ( 2.75" & 3.0" ) most commonly found in MJ's. I used the 3.0" no-cost upgrade as that is what is needed for the 8.25 I am swapping in. Some people try to save some money by flipping the stock springs plates side to side and re-using them as shock mounts on the top of the spring pack. That leaves them just having to buy perches and u-bolts. I do not recommend re-using U-bolts and being able to just cut off the old bolts instead of trying to get them off is a big plus where they use road salt. To re-use the stock plates and their shock mounts you would really limit your flex as that would keep your shock length short. Ok for a street truck I guess but if that is not what I am after. Some report that the original u-bolt holes in the stock D35 spring plates have enough wiggle room to use them with a 3" tube but I have not checked this as I am not going that route. The difference in tube & U-bolt sizes,especially with the much larger Barnes or RuffStuff u-bolts, may result in the need for further fabrication to the plates, anyway. The Barnes stuff is pure beef. Image Not Found Another advantage to this kit is that the spring pads are longer to combat axle wrap and are drilled to allow you to move the axle forward or back to fine tune its position. Short factory-style pads do nothing to help in either of these areas. You can buy just the better perches and they are only about $10 more than the cheapies. Decisions on these parts are good places to make good use of the $5 or $10 bucks you save here and there by shopping around.

Here is the direction that I actually ended up going due to finding those deals. Again the flexibility in doing such a lift is one of the advantages. (NOTE: Pricing as of 4/1/2014) Front RE 5.5" Springs $87 $87 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093397-rubicon-express-re1345-coil-springs-jeep-xj-5-5-jeep-zj-4-pair.html Adjustable Track Bar RE1660 $125 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093479-rubicon-express-re1660-front-adjustable-super-flex-track-bar-jeep-xj-zj.html Track Bar Bracket RE1665 $54 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093480-rubicon-express-re1665-track-bar-bracket-hd-jeep-xj-zj.html CL find package deal: RK QUICK DISCONNECTS RUSTY'S FIXED LOWERS RUSTY'S BRAIDED FRONT BRAKE LINES NIB FROM CRAIGSLIST $100 Upper adjustable control arms RE3780 Amazon $165 http://www.amazon.com/Rubicon-Express-RE3780-Super-Flex-Control/dp/B006GJLM4C/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1395074527&sr=1-1&keywords=re3780 Barnes 4wd axle swap kit D44 3” tube $128 http://www.barnes4wd.com/Dana-44-Axle-Swap-Combo_p_129.html Pick your tube Diameter: 2.75” for stock XJ axles or 3.0” for 8.25 swap. Includes perches, high quality u-bolts, spring plates, & shock mounts. I swapped to bent & curved shock mounts for free Shocks $82 F= Monroe 32305 27.25 15.62 Amazon / R= Monroe 32370 27.25 16.12 Amazon BPE's Rough Country #1088 Amazon $25 http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Country-1088-Eliminator-Unlimited/dp/B00B2AFP8O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395075565&sr=8-1&keywords=rough+country+1088 Total Including shipping AND shocks $ 767 The new prices and total include shipping charges and show that those shipping charges can drastically change your bottom line. Remember that paying more for the part and/or bundling parts from the same supplier even if an individual part in the group may be cheaper somewhere else may save you a lot of money on shipping. Of course shopping for free shipping items is a great idea. I have found that the RE4020 Adjustable upper control arms are $173 and shipped free from Mudflaps.com. The $160 IRP uppers are $178 with shipping. $5-$10 here and there adds up just as quickly in savings as it does in nickle and dime charges.

Now.. having said all of that I would like to point out that the parts listed above are perfectly capable and more importantly available for purchase at any time. But... I mentioned that you can often find good used parts and new parts that folks have bought but did not use. I found a package deal on CL that included NIB fixed Rusty's extended LCA's, Rusty's braided extended brake lines, and a never installed Rock Krawler quick-disconnect kit for $100. To purchase these three items new and to have them shipped to me would have been $320. The new stuff: These items provided a nice upgrade in parts and aided the budget at the same time. And that lead me in a slightly different direction...

Doing an SOA can seem less expensive but it is often not as cheap as you might think. A lot depends on what you want out of the lift when you consider the end use of your jeep. Do you want a great on-road ride at the possible cost of lessened off-road ability? Do you want the best off-road bang for your buck while still using quality parts? The best part of a SOA lift may be that you can piece it together as your budget allows and then assemble it when you have all of the pieces. You can also scour various for sale forums to find better deals on new and/or good used parts to lower the costs. With these things in mind here is a parts list for an off the shelf DIY SOA: "Budget" SOA 5.5” lift. Front RE 5.5" Springs $87 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093397-rubicon-express-re1345-coil-springs-jeep-xj-5-5-jeep-zj-4-pair.html Adjustable Track Bar $128 http://mudflaps.com/search.html?q=+RE1600&go=Search IRO link adapters $13 http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-SBLUB&Category_Code=UP RE1175 links $29 http://mudflaps.com/i-7093357-rubicon-express-re1175-sway-bar-end-links-jeep-xj-zj-tj.html Fixed lower & adjustable upper control arms $269 http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IROR&Product_Code=IR-SHDCA&Category_Code=XSP Allows for adjustment of the pinion angle while keeping the adjuster tucked up high. Save $20 by using fixed upper & lowers Barnes 4wd axle swap kit D44 3” tube $115 http://www.barnes4wd.com/Dana-44-Axle-Swap-Combo_p_129.html Pick your tube Diameter: 2.75” for stock MJ axles or 3.0” for 8.25 swap. Includes perches, high quality u-bolts, spring plates, & shock mounts. I swapped to bent & curved shock mounts for free Front brake hose 88-2000 c1500 oreilly $14x2 $28 http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Brake+Hose/03349/C0066.oap?model=C1500+Pickup+RWD&vi=1031094&year=1988&make=Chevrolet rear brake hose 89-96 dakota oreilly $23 http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BHH1/BH38636/03349.oap?year=1990&make=Dodge&model=Dakota&vi=1087433&ck=Search_03349_1087433_2121&pt=03349&ppt=C0066 Total $692 Add Shocks F. shocks Rusty's RX16 29.92 17.52 S1 BP-7 + $66 http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-rx100-performance-shock-rx-16.html/ R. shocks Rusty's RX11 29.82 17.67 EB1-A EB1-B + $66 http://www.rustysoffroad.com/rustys-rx100-performance-shock-rx-11.html/ I left the shocks off of the initial total as I am willing to use the basic hydro version but others may not want them. Also another very popular SOA lift thread does not inlcude the price of shocks in its list and I wanted a sort of "apples to apples" comparison for those looking for different options. Although the front shocks may be selected based on lift height please remember that your rear shock choice will be dictated by how you mount them. The only sure way to know what you need is to flex and compress your springs after the lift is done and use those measurements. You can adjust the front or rear height if needed to get the stance that you want by using spacers, shackles, or blocks. The rear shocks listed above are a good starting point based on the shocks included in various SOA kits available when those kits use weld-on shock mounts. You will also probably want to add extended bump stops unless you are making a pavement queen..and you should have them then, too. You can spends a couple of bucks and fab them yourself or spend hundreds and anything in between. I will fab mine and I don't believe it will cost me over $10. I am going with the fixed lower/adjustable upper control arms from my personal observations. The fixed lower centers the axle in the wheel well while the adjustable upper allows for pinion angle/camber adjustment to combat death wobble. I chose to use an adjustable upper over an adjustable lower to keep the adjustment pieces up out of the way. You can also go fixed/fixed or adjustable/adjustable based on your desires. I avoided drop brackets as from my experience while wheeling with CAD bracket equipped XJ's and an MJ equipped with them the brackets may hit in several off-road situations. While I have not seen a bracket itself fail I have seen the bracket smash the "frame" it was attached to when coming off of a rock. The blow would not have occurred without the low-hanging CAD brackets as in this case a short-armed XJ of a similar lift height and tire size had previously made the same drop without contact. While the CAD brackets may provide a superior on-road ride they may lead to trouble in certain off-road situations . I want to eliminate that possibility. The choice is another personal preference thing. A quality CAD bracket kit designed for the MJ and not requiring modification ( as an XJ kit does) is comparable in price to buying the control arms in my parts list and that is without the control arms. My choice also has less labor involved which is especially handy the rust belt. The track bar I have in the list is perfectly adequate. A popular upgrade is a double shear track bar with a stronger body-side mount available from many sources. IRO has a good set as does RE (1660 + 1665) Using anti-seize on the sway bar links makes them easier to disconnect. As with any disconnect make sure to include a hay to hold the links up out of the way when disconnect even if it is just zip ties. Disconnects are a nice upgrade with a wide range in price for a set. With the addition of shocks you can see that such a SOA lift is knocking on the price-range door of some pre-assembled kits for a similar lift height and in some cases exceeding it. However many of the pre-made lift kits at this price-range are of an inferior quality and lack some of the parts, such as adjustable control arms and/or a complete control arm set, that I included and that many feel are required for the best performance. Research which way you want to go. Many thanks to Alexia for pioneering the way with his research and sources. Her SOA lift is very thorough and well planned. I went a different way as our end goals are different. http://comancheclub.com/topic/35519-55-600-mj-lift-cheap-high-quality-100-complete-lift/page-5

NOTE: This thread is merging three threads regarding building a DIY SOA lift that is off-road capable and does not break the piggy bank. I would like to keep this thread to just the DIY. If you have other comments please post them here http://comancheclub.com/topic/42254-700-off-road-capable-55-soa-lift/ or here http://comancheclub.com/topic/28522-incommandos-4x2-redux/

About like this: Is that "centered" enough for ya? :thumbsup: As the suspension cycles down the axle arcs rearward. Works great. As the suspension cycles upwards the axle arcs forward. Works great. Although I posted looking for more flex I would point out that it does RTI as well as an LJ with a $1,200 lift.

Easiest hill <div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script> <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/sabrina.greene.106">Sabrina Greene</a>.</div></div>

The easier side <div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script> <div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1531520057069204">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/sabrina.greene.106">Sabrina Greene</a>.</div></div>

Like 90% of the "these days" comparisons it has nothing to do with "these days." It happened to me when I got my first truck 35 years ago and a friend tells a story of getting trash thrown in the bed of his still almost brand new 1965 C10....in 1965.

I will check in the daylight.

Yours are not stock. The stocks are straight and are made of what appears to be folded sheet metal. The diamond you describe seems to indicate a fabbed set of arms with those being reinforcements at the bend. Measurement is eye-to-eye. Google Cherokee control arms and you will get more info than you can handle. http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoWJcontrolarms.htm

Took it off-road. This thing performs very well. Got so excited I did not get any good pics. If I can figure out how to download vids others have posted on FB I have a hill climb vid.