Direction of my build? Tsk.

[DirtyComanche]

Okay, I'm a little scatterbrained right now. So I'm jsut going to regurgitate everything right here. Feel free to comment.

 

 

 

 

Firstly, rollover protection. I figured I was just going to do a square tube bar and tie it into my bed, then tie the bed into the frame. Then somebody drew a picture.

 

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Now, obviously theres some odd things happening there. The two vertical peices at the right cab corner were a mistake. Anyways, I don't feel I'm ready to exo the front yet, so we can disregard that. But from the cab back is what I plan to do. Now, I have to ask is it critical that I have that 'X' in the rollbar? It greatly complicates my life.

 

I feel that I shouldn't need it as I will only have minimal rollover protection if I build what is drawn from the cab back anyways. However, I will probably get pissed off and build an exo similar to the front at some point. Maybe. Then I'd feel that there should be more triangulation, thus I'd need the 'X'. Should I jsut build it without and worry about the ramifications of being lazy later?

 

Oh, I plan to build this all out of 3"x3"x.188" box. Comments? It's easy to work with...

 

 

 

Moving right along. It's front axle time.

 

 

Now, as we all know, I don't like D30s. However, I have one and 35s. To it's record I haven't broken a 260X shaft yet. However, I haven't been able to really beat on it yet. I'm still working out some oddness with the front susp. But I can feel it coming... Maybe tomorrow. And to throw a wrench into the works I want to go to 37s when this set of tires is done...

 

So, as a cheap fix I proposed throwing the newer 297X shafts in it. I was advised that the gain would be minimal at best as the yokes on the shafts are the same, just bored out for the bigger ujoints. This means that the yoke is the failure point. So, no broken joints, just yokes. Cute eh? So, if I'd break the 260X I'll probably break the 297X yokes. So, I might as well just write this off. Thoughts?

 

Next option is Chromos. Now, I've already got a gear setup done, and a trutrac. I'm not touching that. So that would mean 27 spline chromos. Which are pricey. And now I've got a polished D30. Well, not a bad D30. I'll admit that. But I still have the weak C's/knuckles. It might hold the 35s, but I ain't doing 37s with that.

 

Third option: The dreaded waggy LPD44. I can get one for $150 out of the pick'n'pull. No biggy. Now, this leaves a few possible routes. I will have to regear it, but I think I can get a hookup on a cheap gear setup this time. That and I'll probably use used parts (well, carrier, not sure about used gears...). Since waggy D44s were avaliable with vac disco, I contemplait welding an open carrier and using the vac disco (cable conversion) to lock/unlock the front axle. Would this work alright?

 

The waggy D44 makes things annoying as I will need 'new' rims. I'm having trouble finding 6 bolt chevy rims in an 8" width for cheap. That bothers me. I could convert to ford outers and use 5x5.5" ford rims, which I can get a set of 15X8s with 3"~ BS for cheap. I also need to run adapters on the 8.8 rear. This leaves me wondering if I should actually keep the 8.8. It seems to work gooder, even the LSD doesn't suck too bad. But I could throw an isuzu rear in there instead, and sell the 8.8 at a profit, and hopefully get myself 4.56 gearing. Then I'd have the chevy 6-bolt pattern on the rear. But that comes back to rims.

 

 

Last D44 option. Grab myself a ford HPD44 (I know where one is...) and cut the knuckles off, cut it down to waggy width, and run waggy shafts. I'm not sure exactly how hard this is to do. Near as I understand it I should be able to remove the knuckles by griding the welds on them out a bit, and sledgehammering them off. Then I simply mark and cut the tubs (that could be a b*@$£, I don't have a band saw.) Then sledgehammer knuckles back on. Insert rod in knuckles to set pinion angle corretly. Weld. Done. Yes, I can weld cast. I would then have a kickass HP non-fullwidth front. But I'd have to spend some bucks on a detriot or such. However, it would be the best in the long run. It's also the most work. Oh, and it puts me back in that same 'what rear to run' boat.

 

 

Thoughts?

[DirtyComanche]

I just realized that part of the reason I wanted to run a D44 was it had selectable hubs.

 

 

Man. I feel like an idiot.

 

 

Well, then I can weld the front carrier either way.

[Oizarod115]

also with a waggy front you could pull some waggy front leafs... hmm

front leafs on a MJ sounds pretty flexy

[pingpong]

Look at my exo design for some Ideas. I know it isn't exactly what you want, but it would be easy to modify for your rig. Keep in mind that once you start going bigger on tires, the chances of a roll over are more likely. Even a mild flop can put extreme forces on your rig. As for building you cage out of box tubing... I think that is a bad idea. Spend the coin on DOM. It will be a lil more upfront, but 10x stronger in the long run

 

 

As for the d30 :roll: I am running an as built one as possible. and up till my past paragon run it held up great. Unfortunately it broke when I was 400 miles from home and on a 3 black trail and in the lead vehicle position :evil: Talk about blowing chunks :mad: Luckily I had a 260 spare short shaft with me :nanner: and I was able to wheel half a day on a 2 black trail before it let go :banana: then I was winch city from there on out. :offtopic: back on topic... since you all ready have a pretty stout front axle, I would buy the chromo's and slowly build up a HP60. Skip the lp 44 or the hp44. the only difference in building the d60 as compared to the d44's is initial cost :brows:

 

 

 

My final thoughts are... what is taking you so long to turn this thing into a truggy and come wheeling with me :thwak: :nanner:

 

 

Remember build it :D wheel it :evil: then break it :nanner: then repeat :nuts:

[Pete M]

My 2cents:

 

-DOM tube and triangulation are your friends.

 

-You can probably get away with a single triangulation bar instead of the X.

 

-Plenty of people run 297s with 35s. Bring your 260s with you as spares.

 

If there's any left over, you can keep the change. :D

[DirtyComanche]

Ah, I figured my materials choices would come under attack.

 

 

The problem with tube is cost. Now I know you're all going to say "You can't put a price on safety." Well, you have to be reasonable. The tube would have to be special ordered. I don't have a bender, add that. I don't have a notcher, although I could make one. I'd also have to learn to bend tube. Which is suppossedly fairly tricky. All this would add up.

 

 

Or I could take it to one of those so-called "4x4 shops" that we have. Then I'd be broke. For a long time. That's if they'd even use DOM. More likely they'd use HREW. Or black pipe...

 

 

Now, you're thinking "Oh, he's just cheaping out". Well, not really. Square tube is actually stronger than round, the catch is not in all directions. With round tube you have a uniform edgeless shape, other than for the seam. This means if it is hit from an angle it is equally strong. (Other than the seam) With square it's all good from the flat sides, but the edges are the weak points. However, I don't see the edges as being likely to be hit hard for my main hoop behind the cab. The two braces that triangulate rearward are slightly at risk, but I consider it to be minimal. I'm more likely to actually flop onto the sides of the flat deck than those braces, I'd think.

 

But then, I don't know for sure.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of 2x2x.250. F' that's heavy.

 

 

I think I might go talk with an engineer. FWIW I've seen square roll bars and backhalf cages survive some pretty nasty rolls.

[Pete M]

Keep it simple and the costs should be reasonable. Your main rollbar can consist of 2 bends and 2 notches. Adding a diagonal would add 2 more notches. How much can that possibly cost? Have you even talked to the local guys about that? Or are you just assuming it's a billion-dollar job? It's not like we're talking about a complex in-the-cab cage. I made (found actually) my own mounts, you can do the same. They're just rectangle tube sections with an adaptere plate to spread out the load. Do everything so all they need to do is bend/notch/weld-to-your-mounts. Then take it home and paint it yourself.

Protection is not the place to start being creative with materials. HREW would also be acceptible, just be sure the weld seam is on the inside of the bend.

[Pete M]

Like this:

 

 

 

 

With mounts like this:

 

 

[DirtyComanche]

Oh, it'll cost a lot.

 

 

How $160/hour sound?

[DirtyComanche]

Pat, what wall DOM did you use? .120?

[Pete M]

Oh, it'll cost a lot.

 

 

How $160/hour sound?

 

 

 

Well, since with my design you're only asking for about 20 minutes of work... :D

The key is to have them do ONLY the things you cannot do yourself. The guys that did mine charged by the foot, no matter the complexity (but he might have to hang on to the rig for a while since this was his "other" job). Might not sound fair when you look at how un-complex the bending on mine was, but he was also doing all the welding too. I did the painting and all the prep work to the truck.

[DirtyComanche]

Well, maybe I'll run the truck by somebody and see.

 

 

I'm actually leaning more towards a full exo now. Honestly, a roll bar won't protect my cab, it would only help in multiple roll overs. And if I crush my cab I have to find another truck... Or vert.

[Pete M]

I had the same exact thoughts, but could never have afforded a full cage if someone else was doing it. I started with protecting my head and am happy I did that. A rollover is a worst case senario and I drive accordingly. Later on I'll expand the design as time/resources become available. If money is tight, protect what's most important and drive sanely for the time being. Just take future plans into account now so you don't have to re-do anything later on.

[DirtyComanche]

Well, that's why I was going to do this, with the idea of adding an exo similar to the front first.

 

 

But it seems it might just make more sense to do it all in one go.

[Pete M]

But it seems it might just make more sense to do it all in one go.

 

Sure, it makes perfect sense. But only if the money's there. :roll:

[DirtyComanche]

I'm gonna exo it....

 

 

 

It's set in stone now.

[pingpong]

OK WOW :eek: First of DOM is high, but it is down right strong, and my life is worth more then the coins I would have saved by using HREW.

 

MY rock rail bars are 2x.250 DOM, the rest of the cage except for my 2 windshield bars are 1.75x.120, my 2 windshield bars are 1.5x.120. I tweaked one of my door bars at Paragon, but it is only tweaked, so I will run it like that until I decide on how to re-engeneer the part that bent.

 

 

That labor rate was insane dude. I paid a flat fee for the design and build, catch was the shop had to provide everything. I also put a time constraint on the shop, that my rig be done in less then 60 days.

 

MY front exo cage was cheap.... it came in at 1700. This included removing parts, fixing some of my steering issues as well as me just picking it up.

 

Phase 2 was where things got pricey quick.

 

we did the fuel sytem, brake system, and new seats. Then add new shocks, new u-bolts, and plates, and you can see how things can spiral into big bucks. Also keep in mind that this is cutom work... a lot of time went into the research and design of the cage. Also there are changes going to be made to mine, cause I am not 100% happy with the way it works. Needless to say you r rig is never done

 

 

As for what kinda flop or rollover you are going to take :dunno: I can tell you I have all ready done 2 passenger side ones, and a drivers side one. I cam close to doing an endo at Paragon, and kinda close to doing a back flip :eek: Did my driving style, and the lines I took play a part :nanner: of course they did :nuts: I didnt build my truck to sit there and look pretty, I built it to be used and abused :brows:

 

 

Future plans involve dovetailing the front, coilovers up front, and a traingulated 4 link in the rear, or maybe a 1/4 elliptical out back, not sure which one yet.

[DirtyComanche]

The problem is that I figure there's two types of rolls that I will have:

 

The mild flop/over a couple times. I've come close to doing this more than once.

 

 

The "Oh $#!&, we're gonna be at the bottom of the mountain when this is over" sort of roll. It happens, very rarely, but some of the areas I go to you can't always say the whole hillside is firmly anchored.

 

 

 

The first is a lot easier to deal with. The second I think it's just based on luck. But if an exo will potentially make the difference, I'll do it. This won't be an overnight project though.

 

 

But, the local guys will help me on this one. It's jsut like doing a yota :nuts: so they don't think it'll be too hard. Well, the design part at least. I'm gonna have to really think about this though.

[pingpong]

Keep in mind all the exo or interior cage won't make a difference if you doont have good seats and 4 point, if not 5 point harnesses. You alos forgot the endo, or back flip in your equations of types of rolls