Major oil leak from the rear passenger side

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

I guess I'll get it and find out!  I'll post back what I actually get and if it all fits.  It does say it is guaranteed to fit so if it doesn't, pretty sure I can return it, I am on first name basis with the local NAPA crew!

[hgeranium]

1 hour ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

No problem, 3 is far superior to 0!

I am a little confused, the Napa online catalog show this as being 5 gaskets?  Sounds like you believe this items is only 1 gasket not 5?  Am I missing something?

Yeah that's the fel pro kit that people often say is missing a gasket of a particular size, so I'm playing it super safe by just buying the exact gaskets I need by the SAE size. Some people say it works OK but FWIW I only see 91+ people saying it works on the reviews. Every Renix person that left a review said that it was missing something.

 

Edit (again): When I clicked on the link ,I was on my phone and thought that the kit you linked was the singular large gasket ES70301 and not the full 5 piece kit, so that's my mistake

[hgeranium]

46 minutes ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

I guess I'll get it and find out!  I'll post back what I actually get and if it all fits.  It does say it is guaranteed to fit so if it doesn't, pretty sure I can return it, I am on first name basis with the local NAPA crew!

Sorry didn't see this, it was on the second page of the thread. Good luck to you! I would've taken the chance but with this being my daily I couldn't risk leaving my truck out of commission for more than a day.

[hgeranium]

Has anyone had experience with doing away with the oil filter adapter housing in its entirety? This would allow you to eliminate the issues with the adapter gaskets leaking. I've read a few things about just putting that nipple that the oil filter mounts onto directly onto the block and the oil filter fits perfectly on the machined surface. Does this reliably work? any downsides? Why would AMC put an adapter housing if it could very easily run without one?

 

Here is one of the threads I found: 

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/oil-pressure-sending-unit-jeep-4-0-into-1988-wrangler.4379423/

 

[derf]

4 minutes ago, hgeranium said:

Has anyone had experience with doing away with the oil filter adapter housing in its entirety? This would allow you to eliminate the issues with the adapter gaskets leaking. I've read a few things about just putting that nipple that the oil filter mounts onto directly onto the block and the oil filter fits perfectly on the machined surface. Does this reliably work? any downsides? Why would AMC put an adapter housing if it could very easily run without one?

 

Here is one of the threads I found: 

https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/oil-pressure-sending-unit-jeep-4-0-into-1988-wrangler.4379423/

 

Depending on what's in the way and the size of the filter, you may not have room for it on the side of the block.  It may hit what is in the engine bay.  The filters aren't exactly short.

 

And, with it on the side of the block, you get oil dripping down the side that you have to clean up.  Of course, you have to deal with whatever is under the filter getting dripped on anyway (usually the axle).

[hgeranium]

4 minutes ago, derf said:

Depending on what's in the way and the size of the filter, you may not have room for it on the side of the block.  It may hit what is in the engine bay.  The filters aren't exactly short.

 

And, with it on the side of the block, you get oil dripping down the side that you have to clean up.  Of course, you have to deal with whatever is under the filter getting dripped on anyway (usually the axle).

The thread I linked mentions a specific non-stock Bosch filter that is supposedly the correct size to screw on and not have clearance issues.

 

How come oil would drip down the side of the block? Because the mating surface isn't meant for the filter?

[derf]

18 minutes ago, hgeranium said:

The thread I linked mentions a specific non-stock Bosch filter that is supposedly the correct size to screw on and not have clearance issues.

 

How come oil would drip down the side of the block? Because the mating surface isn't meant for the filter?

I should have said that applies when doing a filter change.  Being up on the block, oil will run down the side as soon as you start to pull the filter.

[hgeranium]

Just now, derf said:

I should have said that applies when doing a filter change.  Being up on the block, oil will run down the side as soon as you start to pull the filter.

Ah ok, I thought you meant it would just leak in general lol. That is true but it would be nice not to have to worry about the adapter seals going out. Although at almost 190,000 miles, I would probably never need to put in a new set of O-rings again lol

[derf]

39 minutes ago, hgeranium said:

Ah ok, I thought you meant it would just leak in general lol. That is true but it would be nice not to have to worry about the adapter seals going out. Although at almost 190,000 miles, I would probably never need to put in a new set of O-rings again lol

Yeah, given a once in 200K maintenance on the adapter O-rings, I'll keep the adapter.  I'd throw that in with a rear main seal, oil pan gasket, and valve cover gasket on a Saturday.

[hgeranium]

Just now, derf said:

Yeah, given a once in 200K maintenance on the adapter O-rings, I'll keep the adapter.

Thanks for the help

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

I just did a gunk cleaning all around the filter adapter, and as soon as I started up it was wet with oil again.  So clearly the is a big contributor to my leaks.  I already replaced the valve cover gasket a few months ago.  I also bought the oil pan and RM Seal gasket, but I am a bit concerned that I have the skill to do the RMS.  Seems risky for a first timer to get the old seam worked out and the new one in cleanly.  But will definitely tackle the Oil filter assy soon.

 

Oh for the oil in the filter, I poke a hole in the top of the filter when I am changing it with the theory that releasing the vacuum will let more of the oil drain out.  Never attempted to prove this works, but I do it anyway.. 

[hgeranium]

6 minutes ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

I just did a gunk cleaning all around the filter adapter, and as soon as I started up it was wet with oil again.  So clearly the is a big contributor to my leaks.  I already replaced the valve cover gasket a few months ago.  I also bought the oil pan and RM Seal gasket, but I am a bit concerned that I have the skill to do the RMS.  Seems risky for a first timer to get the old seam worked out and the new one in cleanly.  But will definitely tackle the Oil filter assy soon.

 

Oh for the oil in the filter, I poke a hole in the top of the filter when I am changing it with the theory that releasing the vacuum will let more of the oil drain out.  Never attempted to prove this works, but I do it anyway.. 

I am in the same boat as you with the RMS! Here’s hoping you won’t have to do it. I’m just going to do the OFA o rings and another VCG later on and just pretend like everything is fine. I don’t feel like doing a RMS in my apartment parking lot by myself for the first time with hand tools would be much fun

[hgeranium]

5 minutes ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

I just did a gunk cleaning all around the filter adapter, and as soon as I started up it was wet with oil again.  So clearly the is a big contributor to my leaks.  I already replaced the valve cover gasket a few months ago.  I also bought the oil pan and RM Seal gasket, but I am a bit concerned that I have the skill to do the RMS.  Seems risky for a first timer to get the old seam worked out and the new one in cleanly.  But will definitely tackle the Oil filter assy soon.

 

Oh for the oil in the filter, I poke a hole in the top of the filter when I am changing it with the theory that releasing the vacuum will let more of the oil drain out.  Never attempted to prove this works, but I do it anyway.. 

do you have issues with oil spraying from that area after driving it? Or does it just drip? The entire area of the engine and bay surrounding the oil filter has a nice film of oil and gunk so it would be nice to have somebody to confirm my symptoms so I can feel more confident about the OFA being my main issue. 

[derf]

I've ruined a couple of rear main seals installing them while swapping them out.  It's easy to make a mistake, even when you've done a few.  If you can loosen all the main caps so you can wiggle the crank away from the upper half, it's a little easier.  But then you have a lot more bolts to retorque.

[hgeranium]

13 minutes ago, derf said:

I've ruined a couple of rear main seals installing them while swapping them out.  It's easy to make a mistake, even when you've done a few.  If you can loosen all the main caps so you can wiggle the crank away from the upper half, it's a little easier.  But then you have a lot more bolts to retorque.

Yep, that’s not happening lol. At least not without the help of somebody more experienced 

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

12 minutes ago, hgeranium said:

Yep, that’s not happening lol. At least not without the help of somebody more experienced 

I can't really say if there is any spraying happening, but the oil accumulation was immediate at idle, it would not be a stretch to think it could spray some as the pressure increases (or tries to).  After I get the seals in I'll try to clean up as much as I can to see where it comes back. The location of the OFA, and the obvious leak, clearly could be spreading all over anything below it.  I'll be sure to post back how it goes.  It could be a week or 2 though, I have what is supposed to be a "routine" outpatient surgery in a couple days so I'll probably give it a few days after that before working on anything.  I am sure this will help significantly, but will it stop all the leaks is TBD. 

[hgeranium]

12 minutes ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

I can't really say if there is any spraying happening, but the oil accumulation was immediate at idle, it would not be a stretch to think it could spray some as the pressure increases (or tries to).  After I get the seals in I'll try to clean up as much as I can to see where it comes back. The location of the OFA, and the obvious leak, clearly could be spreading all over anything below it.  I'll be sure to post back how it goes.  It could be a week or 2 though, I have what is supposed to be a "routine" outpatient surgery in a couple days so I'll probably give it a few days after that before working on anything.  I am sure this will help significantly, but will it stop all the leaks is TBD. 

I will also report back tomorrow or Wednesday because I plan on getting it done tomorrow evening. Good luck on your recovery and your eventual OFA repair!

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

Thanks, and looking forward to here how it goes!

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

A little more digging..  I am not sure how to do apples-to-apples here, but assuming cruiser's infor is accurate and it probably is, it doesn't really look like either of these kits that claim to be correct are actually correct.  At least not exactly correct.  I have no idea how much play is allowed in these sizes for a fit that seals and wears correctly.  And of course I am assuming here my web search was accurate for the comparison.

[hgeranium]

Just now, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

A little more digging..  I am not sure how to do apples-to-apples here, but assuming cruiser's infor is accurate and it probably is, it doesn't really look like either of these kits that claim to be correct are actually correct.  At least not exactly correct.  I have no idea how much play is allowed in these sizes for a fit that seals and wears correctly.  And of course I am assuming here my web search was accurate for the comparison.

Yeah I guess that’s what people were talking about having varying luck with them. How hard could it possibly be, fel-pro? Instead of making kits for each application (Renix and HO) they cut costs and make an all in one kit that fits neither of them lmao. Are you still going to try the kit? My o ring assortment comes in today so I will keep you posted this evening on my luck with that

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

I ordered the Felpro kit cause I am on first name basis with my local Napa, and it was in stock.  But when I go to pick up later today I am taking Cruisers list with me to ask if they can match them up.  The Mahle was not listed at Napa, and was only listed as special order at O'Reilly so not ordering that at the moment.  I am also going to email the local Jeep dealer with the Mopar numbers and see what they say. 

[hgeranium]

5 minutes ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

I ordered the Felpro kit cause I am on first name basis with my local Napa, and it was in stock.  But when I go to pick up later today I am taking Cruisers list with me to ask if they can match them up.  The Mahle was not listed at Napa, and was only listed as special order at O'Reilly so not ordering that at the moment.  I am also going to email the local Jeep dealer with the Mopar numbers and see what they say. 

Nice. It’ll be good to get an official answer for science! And for the good of 4.0 owners everywhere

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

Yep!  By the time we are done, we should have a pretty good 2025 reference 

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

For what it's worth, well about $25, this kit on ebay has at least one review noting a perfect fit if your attaching bolt is not the torx version.  I believe mine is not the torx version.  If the other resources fail, I'll give this a shot.  I have some luxury to leave the jeep disabled if needed for a short time since I have a second vehicle.  Saw lots of this same part number for a little less.

 

[hgeranium]

2 hours ago, AnotherOldJeepGuy said:

For what it's worth, well about $25, this kit on ebay has at least one review noting a perfect fit if your attaching bolt is not the torx version.  I believe mine is not the torx version.  If the other resources fail, I'll give this a shot.  I have some luxury to leave the jeep disabled if needed for a short time since I have a second vehicle.  Saw lots of this same part number for a little less.

 

That’s interesting! I never would’ve thought it would be different based on what bolt you had, but I guess it makes sense that they’re separate parts with slightly different o rings.