Does anyone here know Linux?

[Eagle]

And I mean REALLY know Linux. I have a major-league problem, created by Linux, and I don't have any idea how to fix it. Or even if it can be fixed.

 

It involves an old Asus laptop computer and a failed installation of Debian Mint. Linux has hijacked the bootloader so now the computer ignores the DVD drive and the USB ports when booting -- except that the Linux is corrupted, so it won't boot up. I need to get back to a state where I can access the DVD or USB for booting, so I can put a working operating system on it.

 

HELP!

[Big_Mark]

I'm "familiar" with Linux as in I administrate 7 Linux servers (Ubuntu).

What is it you are trying to do?

Just unf**k the system so you can reload Linux?

Or do you need to fix it so you can get your services back up and running?

 

If you just want to wipe and reload, that should be easy since DVD, USB are firmware (hardware) devices and should be accessible via the BIOS.

 

PM me if you want to get all nerdy offline and sh*t

[pizzaman09]

It's been a long time since I played with Linux, but to me it sounds like a bootloader sequence issue on startup.  I'm not sure what key you need to press or hold during startup to get into the BIOS, but there should be a message just before the OS boots that tells you.  From the BIOS you should be able to change the boot loader preferences.

[Eagle]

54 minutes ago, Big_Mark said:

I'm "familiar" with Linux as in I administrate 7 Linux servers (Ubuntu).

What is it you are trying to do?

Just unf**k the system so you can reload Linux?

 

Yes, I am trying to get the system functional again, so I can install either a functioning Linux distro, or Windows 10.

Quote

If you just want to wipe and reload, that should be easy since DVD, USB are firmware (hardware) devices and should be accessible via the BIOS.

 

I wish I could just wipe and reload. As I stated in the opening post, Linux has hijacked the bootloader, so the machine now will not boot from the DVD drive or from a bootable USB stick. Before you even ask -- yes, I have checked the BIOS boot sequence, and it is set properly. In fact, I even tried a boot-up with the hard disk disabled entirely, and it still went directly the the GRUB boot sequence. Thanks to this screwed up Linux, GRUB ignores the BIOS setting and insists on booting directly into Linux -- which doesn't work.

[Big_Mark]

How old is the laptop? What Model?

Can you pull the drive, format it, then put it back in and try again?

Any setting is stored on the disk, not the BIOS if you wipe the disk you should be able to do whatever you need to do.

Alternately, do you have another drive you can swap into the laptop to see if the laptop behaves?

 

Bottom line, you are fighting a setting stored on Disk, removing, wiping or replacing the disk should get you back in action.

[Big_Mark]

How do I automount usb drives in Linux (Debian)? - Unix & Linux Stack Exchange

 

If you can't do that you will just need to let Linux know where the devices reside, and mount them. See above for "an answer".

 

Whenever I run into a problem with LInux after upgrading (usually a service, not so much the system) Google, then test, then refine the Goolging get me close enough to figure it out.

 

plus you gotta us the shell (command line) for this kind of thing, but don't sweat it. It's already broken so what do you have to lose?

[Eagle]

1 hour ago, Big_Mark said:

How old is the laptop? What Model?

Can you pull the drive, format it, then put it back in and try again?

Any setting is stored on the disk, not the BIOS if you wipe the disk you should be able to do whatever you need to do.

Alternately, do you have another drive you can swap into the laptop to see if the laptop behaves?

 

Bottom line, you are fighting a setting stored on Disk, removing, wiping or replacing the disk should get you back in action.

 

Since it won't see either the DVD or the USB even with the hard drive is disabled in BIOS, obviously the problem is not something stored on the hard drive.

 

Unfortunately, it's an older machine -- an Asus A3000-A3A. 1995.  The hard drive is a 2-1/2 inch IDE drive, and I don't have anything else of that type, nor do I have a way of connecting to it as an external drive if I remove it.

[Eagle]

44 minutes ago, Big_Mark said:

How do I automount usb drives in Linux (Debian)? - Unix & Linux Stack Exchange

 

If you can't do that you will just need to let Linux know where the devices reside, and mount them. See above for "an answer".

 

Whenever I run into a problem with LInux after upgrading (usually a service, not so much the system) Google, then test, then refine the Goolging get me close enough to figure it out.

 

plus you gotta us the shell (command line) for this kind of thing, but don't sweat it. It's already broken so what do you have to lose?

 

There is no command line, that's the problem. If I interrupt the boot right at the beginning and go into the GRUB recover mode, I get a command line but it only accept certain commands. For example, I tried a sudo string, and it returned "Command sudo not recognized." If I allow the boot to run to completion, I end up with a black screen with a small, horizontal line (cursor) in the upper left corner, and it won't accept any input from the keyboard.

[Gojira94]

What OS in on the Windows partition? XP and older you can boot to a DOS boot disk and run fdisk /mbr to re-create the master boot record.

[Big_Mark]

9 hours ago, Eagle said:

 

There is no command line, that's the problem. If I interrupt the boot right at the beginning and go into the GRUB recover mode, I get a command line but it only accept certain commands. For example, I tried a sudo string, and it returned "Command sudo not recognized." If I allow the boot to run to completion, I end up with a black screen with a small, horizontal line (cursor) in the upper left corner, and it won't accept any input from the keyboard.

Yowzer, that machine is old!

Does it ever boot into Linux?

If so, can you access the shell there?

 

If you pull the drive you can use this to connect it to another PC. (do you have another PC?)

Amazon.com: Unitek USB 3.0 to IDE and SATA Converter External Hard Drive Adapter Kit for Universal 2.5/3.5 HDD/SSD Hard Drive Disk, One Touch Backup Function, Included 12V/2A Power Adapter : Electronics

 

I know you said the laptop doesn't boot off a DVD or USB drive with the primary hard rive installed, you could pull that drive out, then load Windows or Ubuntu or whatever on a USB drive then boot off of that.

If GRUB still loads after the primary hard drive is disconnected, then that's a new one to me.

 

Last thing, try resetting the BIOS to factory defaults, that might give you the ability to boot off another drive/USB device PREBOOT (before Grub loads and takes over)

 

On Dell PCs tapping the F12 key during boot up allows me to choose what to boot off, some other PCs use the F8 key to do this as well.

(EDIT) on Asus it appears to be the F8 key How to Access Asus Boot Menu to Make Asus Boot from USB? (partitionwizard.com)

 

Let us know how it goes, it sucks when this kind of thing happens.

[Gojira94]

Oops, I thought you had a broken dual boot scenario. If your initial boot screen on power-on has a full screen logo for ASUS, you can hit esc or tab and it will show the POST info (RAM count, CPU ID, disk enumeration, etc. and should show a message that says something like "Press F1" or "Press Del" to enter setup. Once into the BIOS (entirely independent of what's on track 0 of any disk attached) you can find the boot order and set optical drive as first boot device, follow whatever key prompt to enter CD/DVD boot.

[Eagle]

9 hours ago, Big_Mark said:

Yowzer, that machine is old!

Does it ever boot into Linux?

If so, can you access the shell there?

 

No. You can see the GRUB bootloader going through all the steps of booting up. EVERY SINGLE PROCESS returns an error message. At the end of the boot-up process, all that's on the screen is a small, horizontal line (the cursor) in the upper left corner. It doesn't respond to keyboard input. So I can't access the shell.

 

Quote

If you pull the drive you can use this to connect it to another PC. (do you have another PC?)

Amazon.com: Unitek USB 3.0 to IDE and SATA Converter External Hard Drive Adapter Kit for Universal 2.5/3.5 HDD/SSD Hard Drive Disk, One Touch Backup Function, Included 12V/2A Power Adapter : Electronics

 

I have a 2.5" IDE to USB connector on order.

 

Quote

I know you said the laptop doesn't boot off a DVD or USB drive with the primary hard rive installed, you could pull that drive out, then load Windows or Ubuntu or whatever on a USB drive then boot off of that.

If GRUB still loads after the primary hard drive is disconnected, then that's a new one to me.

 

Tried that. GRUB still runs, even when there's no hard drive.

 

Quote

Last thing, try resetting the BIOS to factory defaults, that might give you the ability to boot off another drive/USB device PREBOOT (before Grub loads and takes over)

 

On Dell PCs tapping the F12 key during boot up allows me to choose what to boot off, some other PCs use the F8 key to do this as well.

(EDIT) on Asus it appears to be the F8 key How to Access Asus Boot Menu to Make Asus Boot from USB? (partitionwizard.com)

 

Let us know how it goes, it sucks when this kind of thing happens.

 

I also tried resetting the BIOS to the defaults. No joy.

 

I fear this thing is well and truly Borked.

[Eagle]

9 hours ago, Gojira94 said:

Oops, I thought you had a broken dual boot scenario. If your initial boot screen on power-on has a full screen logo for ASUS, you can hit esc or tab and it will show the POST info (RAM count, CPU ID, disk enumeration, etc. and should show a message that says something like "Press F1" or "Press Del" to enter setup. Once into the BIOS (entirely independent of what's on track 0 of any disk attached) you can find the boot order and set optical drive as first boot device, follow whatever key prompt to enter CD/DVD boot.

 

Read post #4

 

"Before you even ask -- yes, I have checked the BIOS boot sequence, and it is set properly. "

[Gojira94]

Ok last stupid post from me- no diskette drive in that thing? Late era socket 7 Pentium 1 on an Intel 82837EX/HX/LX chipset laptops almost always had one. With USB support in the last of the Intel P1 chipsets, you could possibly boot from a USB diskette drive/Win98 boot (DOS) diskette and run fdisk /mbr, if the diskette drive is borked.

[Eagle]

No diskette drive

[Gojira94]

The Asus A3000-A3A/A3C models look to be more like 2005, not 1995. Something like that would have full boot from optical drive and USB HDD, where a laptop from 10 years earlier may not have. Circa 1995, OS installation usually began from a boot diskette, which loaded DOS-level IDE optical drive drivers to install Windows 95 or 98 from CD. Hence the guesswork about booting from a diskette drive. All that being said, I'll assume you installed Mint from a bootable USB stick or CD or DVD you burned from a downloaded ISO file. Either whatever media you're trying to boot from now isn't bootable and it's trying the next device(s) in the boot order until it boots from the IDE HDD, which contains the GRUB bootloader, or the optical drive has failed, or it only supports CD, CD-R and it's being fed DVD or CD-RW and the drive doesn't support DVD, and many drives have trouble with CD-RW that's been burned as bootable.

 

Making USB media bootable isn't as straightforward as you might think. I use a tool called Rufus (https://rufus.ie/en/)for this. If you have a CD/DVD burner on another computer you can still make bootable optical disks from standalone bootable ISO images like Ultimate Boot CD (https://www.ultimatebootcd.com/).

 

Last- you won't be able to install Windows 10 on that. Windows 7 or 8.1 (32-bit only) at the highest. I believe that machine has a max of 2GB memory. It would work very well with XP, for an offline use only machine for tuning/ datalogging, for example. Or if you prefer Linux, an old copy of Red Hat 8.0/9.0 "Psyche" or "Shrike" codename distributions (Pre- Fedora era).

[Eagle]

Windows 10 32-bit will run on 2 GB of RAM. I had a Windows tablet with that setup that ran very well for the limited use I had for a tablet. That said, the point of trying to put Windows on it now is just to try to regain control of the bootloader. If I can get the machine functioning again, then I can test out other Linux distros running from live USB sticks, rather than installing Linux blind (which was my mistake).

 

The media I'm using are bootable -- they work on other computers. The problam here is that this Linux has hijacked the boot sequence. I know you don't believe me, but that's what happened and I have confirmed that it's a known possibility. I just don't know how to fix it.

[Gojira94]

I'm running Win7 32-bit on a laptop (IBM T42 - 1.8GHz CPU) from 2005 with 2GB RAM and an IDE (parallel ATA disk with a decent 8MB I/O buffer). It's ungodly slow with anything other than my tuning software for GM LT1 & TBI stuff. It's the disk I/O read/write rate that will make Win10 miserable for you. The only part of a legacy BIOS an OS can possibly write to is the boot block where the handoff from BIOS to OS occurs when it looks to mount hard disk track 0 and let OS take over. Really old computers had a BIOS setting (or jumper) to clear the boot block, as boot block viruses could write themselves there and prevent OS boot. LiLO theoretically could, and GRUB can and does write to newer UEFI-based systems' firmware to make boot entries, as do MS OS Win8 and higher. Being that you have a legacy BIOS (pre-UEFI) system, the boot block is the only possibility I can offer you to check/ clear inside the BIOS, if possible. I'd offer you a free 2.5" IDE drive but the only ones I have left are 12-20GB with 512k buffers and would be all but unusable in anything made after 1997.

 

One last thought - see if hammering Esc or F8 get you into the boot menu so you can manually select/force the boot device (reference here: https://www.disk-image.com/faq-bootmenu.htm).

[Gojira94]

By the way, the default timeout for grub, before it loads and displays its business, is 0 seconds. What we used to do with systems at Red Hat was edit /etc/default/grub and change line 1 from GRUB_TIMEOUT=0 to 2. If you can interrupt GRUB, which is difficult unless you start hammering a BIOS option key before it starts, you can get to the emergency console by hitting literally any other key than Enter. From there, you can press e  and add rd.break to the end of the line that ends with the word linux, hit Ctrl-x and get the emergency console shell. After that you have to remount the file system read-write, vi or vim /etc/fstab and start looking for improperly mounted filesystem entries or missing devices, fix or delete entries. If your Linux install was working at one time, I'd walk you through this stuff. Since your problem isn't specifically inside Linux, I'm suggesting ways to get around/ behind GRUB and kill it.

[Big_Mark]

Just to be clear holding down or repeatedly tapping the F8 key during boot up give no other boot options? 

 

You gotta tap the key immediately after powering the laptop on.

 

I did find some mention of GRUB being added as the primary boot loader in BIOS but if you reset that, that shouldn't be happening now.

Also the instructions I found to fix this were for UEFI native laptops, not BIOS native, (like what you have presumably)

 

friggin Linux is a b*@ch!

 

I use linux server for services, and run WSL on my WIn 10/11 workstations to SSH into them to do updates, configure them etc, but it's NOT MY DAILY DRIVER

 

I'm am nerd but not That much of a nerd, lolz

 

[Eagle]

I'm able to interrupt GRUB before it starts, and get to a repair (or recover?) command prompt -- but at that point it only accepts a limited number of commands. And "sudo" isn't one of them, and I can't run Lilo, either.

 

I think the thing is well and truly borked and I should probably admit defeat and take it to the transfer station.

[Big_Mark]

Well sheeit!

 I seem to remember having a problem like this in the 90’s but is was an old azz Mac running Yellow Dog Linux.

 

 I have a guru I could call on but he’d need the laptop in hand to un flawk it.

 

considering the age of that thing it’s probably time to get something newer.

 

if $ is an issue look locally for pc recycling places, you might find a cheap upgrade (new to you) and be able to recycle that old thang.

 

sorry I couldn’t be more helpful!

[Gojira94]

If you're in the emergency console/ shell, GRUB has already loaded the OS bootstrap, you unfortunately didn't interrupt it. Sudo won't get you anywhere- it's a preamble to any command you want to run as root, or literally, the 'super user.' Means 'do' the following command as the 'super user.' Here's an example: sudo systemctl daemon-reload. if you want to change to 'being' that root user itself, the command is su, and you'll be prompted for root's credentials. I mentioned LiLO, because it was the de facto bootloader before GRUB was a thing, back in the Linux kernel 2.x days. It's not a command unto itself.

 

What Big_Mark and I are asking about F8 or Esc are keys that can be struck after the power on self-test ("POST") that the BIOS performs, but BEFORE the BIOS hands off control to whatever OS bootstrap resides on the first track of the hard drive. Special keys programmed into the BIOS allow you to do different things. These key assignments vary by the manufacturer of the BIOS (Award, AMI, some OE like IBM, HP, ASUS write their own or customize an Award or AMI .bin file). Things like stop and specify a boot device manually, boot straight from network, modify settings for an embedded device like a RAID controller, enter the BIOS itself to change settings (which you're able to), etc. The critical keystroke here is the one that will let you select the boot device from a list. In your case, something other than the HDD. Big_Mark and I believe either F8 or Esc will halt the BIOS from handing off to GRUB and let you select USB disk or optical drive (which may require a keystroke of its own to launch a menu- remember "Press any key to boot from CD" in the XP/Vista/Win7 days). If you have an old Vista/Win7 CD you can boot from that and use the command prompt from its menu to do fdisk /mbr (which will remove GRUB). Then do:

diskpart

select disk 0

clean

and your hard drive will be effectively blank from track 0 out to the last sector.

 

One last suggestion, since you can get into the BIOS. Look for a setting like "enable option keys" so keys you can hit to halt the BIOS and do other things are available. Otherwise, there may not be any ability to use "F8" or "Esc" to enter a boot selection menu.

[Big_Mark]

[Big_Mark]