Corvair and Volkswagen swing axles

[Gene]

Hi everyone,

There is a thread in MJ tech which is making intermittent references to Corvair swing axles. I never had a Corvair, but I had a 1963 VW beetle. Here is my understanding of the situation.

The earlier Volkswagen beetles, up until about 1967, and the first generation Corvair  used a swing axle. In this,  the tire remains perpendicular to the axle half shaft. The only joint is at the transaxle.

Additionally,  rear engine vehicles, with more weight in the rear, have an inherent tendency to oversteer, or for the weight of the rear of the car to worsen a skid. Finally, both these vehicles had minimal, if any anti-sway bars.

So, if there should be a skid, the body would lean, the rear wheel would tend to "tuck" and contribute to a rollover.

Later Volkswagens, and second generation Corvair's, used a double-jointed rear axle. In this, the tire would keep approximately the same camber, regardless of the movement of the axle. So it would not "tuck" 

I remember going to junk yards for Volkswagen parts, probably mid 1970s, and seeing many older beetles with roof panel damage. I'm not sure about Corvair's.

So I don't think that Ralph Nader's allegations were totally unfounded. Exaggerated perhaps, but they had some basis in truth.

Thoughts?

Gene

[Eagle]

Your technical understanding and description are 100 percent correct.

 

The problem with Ralph Nader and his book Unsafe at Any Speed is that the book didn't come out until well after Chevrolet had switched to a double-jointed rear axle, thereby eliminating the problem. To the best of my knowledge, Ralphie has never acknowledged that Chevy fixed the problem before he made a lifetime career out of bashing the Corvair.

[gogmorgo]

Ralph's career has contributed a small handful of things to automotive safety, in particular its highened public awareness and automaker accountability. But yeah, most of what he had to say about the Corvair is hogwash, and unfortunately it's caused a huge number of people to shy away from the unconventional. In particular, rear-biassed weight distribution can be used by a skilled operator to help steer the vehicle in less than ideal traction situations, or just an everyday slide. Except North American driver education and testing systems just reinforce obience to traffic laws and don't really focus on actual vehicle operation, so most operators are not anywhere close to equipped to handle less-than-ideal traction, or control the vehicle when the limits of traction have otherwise been exceeded. 

[Dzimm]

On 10/21/2018 at 12:18 PM, gogmorgo said:

Ralph's career has contributed a small handful of things to automotive safety, in particular its highened public awareness and automaker accountability. But yeah, most of what he had to say about the Corvair is hogwash, and unfortunately it's caused a huge number of people to shy away from the unconventional. In particular, rear-biassed weight distribution can be used by a skilled operator to help steer the vehicle in less than ideal traction situations, or just an everyday slide. Except North American driver education and testing systems just reinforce obience to traffic laws and don't really focus on actual vehicle operation, so most operators are not anywhere close to equipped to handle less-than-ideal traction, or control the vehicle when the limits of traction have otherwise been exceeded. 

Agreed.  In my driving test the only "control technique" that was taught was recovering from hitting the gravel shoulder.  The instructor had us steer into the gravel and then recover.