Brakes questions

[Tuzmaster]

Okay guys, so I just put new wheels on the truck and now the front brakes started to overheat when its hot outside. I did go up in the tire size from 235/75/r15 to 255/70/r16, but that still doesnt make sense. They shouldn't overheat. Over the summer I did a front axle swap to a 91+ axle so the front brakes are a different (mine is an 87). I do not know what condition those calipers were in when they were pulled from the junkyard. I also want to replace the hoses that are there since they may be causing the brakes to stick as well. But this is an 87 with a 91+ axle, are the hoses compatable? 

 

Also, I want to do a rear disk brake conversion. There is a kit by G2 that has everything needed and works with the D44 that is under my Manche. But, on some forums, I have read that the brake valve that is in the brake master cylinder needs to be replaced. G2 has not yet answered if that needs to be replaced. Does that need to be done or is that only for when swapping calipers with a ZJ? It also says on their website that the brakes aren't compatable with the 87 Manche even though it is for D44 applications. Any thoughts? 

 

 

Thanks guys

 

[Eagle]

When you swapped the axle, did you keep ALL the brake parts from the "new" axle, or did you use anything from the old axle?

 

From the manuscript for my unfinished book (this is copyrighted, and I am NOT granting anyone permission to copy it or to distribute it):

 

Quote

In general, the parts to be concerned with in keeping the front brakes compatible are the steering knuckles, the hub/bearing assemblies, the rotors, and the calipers. (There is a more complete enumeration of the interrelationship of these parts in Chapter 6, Axles.)

 

 

• Only two steering knuckle designs were used: 1984 through 1989, and 1990 through 2001. Left and right side knuckles are different part numbers within each group.

 

• Three different hub/bearing units were used. The hub/bearing units are the same for both sides of the vehicle. The different years for hub/bearing assemblies were: 1984 through 1989; 1990 through mid-1999 (composite rotors); and late-1999 through 2001 (cast rotors).

 

• Three rotor types were used: 1984 through 1989; 1990 through mid-1999 (composite); and late-1999 through 2001 (cast).

 

• Only two caliper types were used: 1984 through 1989, and 1990 through 2001. Left and right side calipers are different part numbers within each group.

[Tuzmaster]

I have kept all the brake parts up to calipers. the Hoses to the calipers are from 87. Calipers are 90+ I guess

[gogmorgo]

After the core charge was refunded, rebuilt callipers for my '91 were $35 up here in Soviet Canuckistan.

The only reason brakes would be overheating is if they were dragging or you're riding them and/or standing on them every stop. I'm assuming you would know if it was the latter, so they're probably dragging. 

Does "I have kept all the brake parts up to the callipers" mean they're '87 parts? As Eagle said, if you've got '90+ steering knuckles (which you will if the axle was untouched from a '91) then you'll need to use the hub and all brake components (the lines are fine if they screwed in) from the later setup. Pads, rotors, everything.

My bet is the junkyard callipers are just that... Junk. Also, if you cooked the pads real good once, they're probably not going to perform very well for you. They have a tendency to turn into powder if you overheat them a few times too many. 

[HOrnbrod]

2 hours ago, Tuzmaster said:

Okay guys, so I just put new wheels on the truck and now the front brakes started to overheat when its hot outside. I did go up in the tire size from 235/75/r15 to 255/70/r16, but that still doesnt make sense. They shouldn't overheat. Over the summer I did a front axle swap to a 91+ axle so the front brakes are a different (mine is an 87). I do not know what condition those calipers were in when they were pulled from the junkyard. I also want to replace the hoses that are there since they may be causing the brakes to stick as well. But this is an 87 with a 91+ axle, are the hoses compatable?

 

 

Replace the junkyard calipers. Don't cheap out with brakes.

 

2 hours ago, Tuzmaster said:

Also, I want to do a rear disk brake conversion. There is a kit by G2 that has everything needed and works with the D44 that is under my Manche. But, on some forums, I have read that the brake valve that is in the brake master cylinder needs to be replaced. G2 has not yet answered if that needs to be replaced. Does that need to be done or is that only for when swapping calipers with a ZJ? It also says on their website that the brakes aren't compatable with the 87 Manche even though it is for D44 applications. Any thoughts?

 

 

They are referring to the proportioning valve. On an XJ you would replace the existing drum brake proportioning valve with a ZJ disk brake prop valve or similar. On your MJ you can do the same and eliminate the rear load sensing valve, or retain the LSV and use it for proportioning. That's what I did when I converted my D44 to disks and it works fine.

[Tuzmaster]

I pulled the axle as an assembly at the yard with the donor calipers. So the knuckle, caliper are all 91+. My only concern were the hoses. So Ill replace the Calipers. 

 

 HOrnbrod, did you adjust the valve? From previously gathered knowledge, disks require more pressure, so the valve need to be raised up? with a small braket perhaps? Seems to be the easiest way. Also, where is the proportioning valve on the 89 and older MJ's? or is the LSV it?

 

Thanks guys for all the info

[HOrnbrod]

You can fab an adjustable LSV rod to open it up more like  HERE, or pull the arm and slip the LSV splined shaft to allow max throughput like the below.

 

Also, all MJs use the LSV for brake proportioning. The front brake line block is just a distribution block - no brake proportioning.

 

"Today I broke out the FSM and re-read the load sensing valve (LSV) adjustment procedure - again. Referring to the diagram below, rear brake bias is optimal when the LSV shaft flat (shown by the red line; flat is actually on the splined portion of the shaft) points down at the 6.00 o'clock position while looking at the LSV from the front. The factory adjustment procedure used a wonky 85* adjustment fixture to do the procedure; naturally they are now unobtanium. But in reading the procedure I could see exactly what was happening and how it worked. I pulled the LSV lever partially off the LSV so I could see the shaft flat, and it was pointing at 3:00 o'clock! WTF? I then pulled the lever completely off, and rotated the shaft clockwise 360*. You could feel the pull in the shaft as the LSV internal rotary piston passed across the inlet and outlet fluid ports, then after it passed over the ports, it turned freely with no pull. This is how it regulates the rear brake bias depending on the vehicle load, and if the lever isn't in the correct orientation, the ports are blocked, thus there's no opening for the fluid to pass. Which of course causes weak or no rear braking.

I then rotated the valve shaft so it faced at about the 8:00 o'clock position, which simulated a fully loaded MJ and maximum rear braking. Then while keeping the shaft from rotating, slid the lever back on the splined shaft, pressed it on, and tightened it all down. Went for a test drive and slammed on the brakes, and the rears locked right up. Yay! Then I fooled with different lever positions on the splined valve shaft, and the best braking ended up to be when the shaft flat was facing right at the 7:00 o'clock position.

Now in a panic stop, the fronts lock up just before the rears - perfect. After about four full pedal stops, all four disks were hotter than the hinges of hell. Whereas before, just the front disks got real hot. I'm happy now - no ZJ proportioning valve and re-routing of the brake lines is now required. :)  At least for now.

Does this make sense to y'all? Unfortunately, the 91-92 LSV's are different than the older ones as there's no flat on the splined arm of the 90 and below LSV's. And the older LSV's use a completely different adjustment procedure and adjustment fixture, even wonkier than the HO's do."

[87MJTIM]

12 hours ago, Eagle said:

When you swapped the axle, did you keep ALL the brake parts from the "new" axle, or did you use anything from the old axle?

 

From the manuscript for my unfinished book (this is copyrighted, and I am NOT granting anyone permission to copy it or to distribute it):

 

 

Eagle, I am waiting patiently for this book!

[Tuzmaster]

How do i enable 3rd partyhosting? Cause i cannot see the diagram 

[Eagle]

7 hours ago, Tuzmaster said:

How do i enable 3rd partyhosting? Cause i cannot see the diagram 

 

You don't. The owner of the images has to buy a $388 per year subscription from Photobucket.

 

There are patches to get around the problem. What browser are you ussing?

[Tuzmaster]

I'm using chrome

[Eagle]

On 9/25/2017 at 10:44 PM, Tuzmaster said:

I have kept all the brake parts up to calipers. the Hoses to the calipers are from 87. Calipers are 90+ I guess

 

Don't guess. The knuckles and the hubs have slightly different dimensions/offsets. You can't mix components or you get an interference fit. You need to verify what year EVERY component is from, to be certain they're all compatible.

 

If you didn't use new or rebuilt calipers, though, the problem may be as simple as a frozen caliper. Also check the caliper sliders to be sure the calipers can move freely.

[Eagle]

2 hours ago, Tuzmaster said:

I'm using chrome

 

Solution (from a friend who runs the M1911.org forum):

 

So here is the solution. For those of you who use Google Chrome as your browser, open Chrome and go to this address:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.ph...st-one-picture

Scroll down until you see OD*'s post, you should see a ransomware icon in it, the same if you scroll a bit more down to NRMCOLT post.

Now go to this address:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...alioapbifiaedg

Click on the link to install that extension in Chrome. After it is installed, close your browser and restart it. Then visit the page you visited before.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.ph...st-one-picture

The ransomware icons are not shown anymore, instead the original pictures show.

[Tuzmaster]

I will repeat myself again. I got the whole axle as an assbly. That includes shafts, gears, knuckles, hubs, brakes and other stuff. It was unbolted at the control arm level and taken as a whole. When bolting into the 87, it was bolted once again at the control arm level with all new steering components and track bar etc. The only concern I have is where the hose from an existing 87 Manche meets the new brake caliper off of the new axle. There is no leak and that fit, so at this point I will replace the calipers. The sliders are not the issue as new pads and sliders were greased when those were replaced. 

 

Thanks for the info guys. As for the rear disk brake swap, Ill just put together the adjustable bar. I really like that idea