teamsmith Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 All, I finally got the replacement engine put in and it purrs like a kitten. I also replaced the clutch, pressure plate, and internal slave while I was in there. The transmission is still the ba10/5. during the install, I left the two straps connected to the throwout bearing/slave as per the instructions which stated that the straps would break on first use. since I'm doing the less common Ba10/5 to a '98 4.0, I had to use a pilot bushing instead of a bearing which I got from Advance Adapters. I did not check whether the bushing spun freely on the input shaft of the tranny before beating it into the engine but the clutch adjustment tool fit fine. I cannot get the clutch to disengage; meaning that I cannot shift into gear. I have bled the thing 20 times per the FSM instructions and the clutch pedal is as stiff as a big dumptruck-Way stiffer than it was with the old clutch and stiffer than I have ever felt in a car; you really have to stand on it. Is it possible that the straps still have not broken on the slave and the pressure on the clutch pedal is so high because the slave is not moving? Would I hear the straps break? I would think that I would have heard them. Any suggestions/ recommendations are appreciated. This truck has been sitting for months and I'm so close to getting it back on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiatslug87 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Can you shift through the gears when the engine is off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yes, I can shift through all gears easily with engine off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Sounds like you are physically hanging up on something. A system that needs to be bled feels mushy, not rock hard. The hydraulics will easily disconnect the nylon straps so it isn't that. I'm not up on the BA 10/5 but I wondered if it's possible to put an AX-15 clutch kit on it and have it hang up. Unfortunately it sounds like you need to pull it apart again and see what isn't moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Thanks for the input. I'm going to borrow one of those fiber optic cameras and see if I can run it through the starter hole to get a look at the slave. At this point I'm leaning more towards pushing it off a cliff before I take it apart again. Do you if it's possible to install the clutch backward? I'm certain I followed the directions for installation but now I'm questioning everything. I don't think the clutch would sit on the flywheel with the spring stack in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So much for those straps breaking.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It is possible to install the clutch disc (friction disc) backwards. I put a LUK clutch kit in Georgia when the old internal slave let go. I replaced it with another LUK kit last fall when converting to 4WD/external slave and the new disc wasn't marked. They should be marked "flywheel side" or "this side out" but the new hecho en Mexico LUK disc wasn't (oversight? Laziness? Cost Savings?) As the discs both had the same P/N I used the old one as a guide to know which side went towards the flywheel. Was your disc marked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The stiff pedal makes it sound to me like the straps on the slave cylinder didn't break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 It is possible to install the clutch disc (friction disc) backwards. I put a LUK clutch kit in Georgia when the old internal slave let go. I replaced it with another LUK kit last fall when converting to 4WD/external slave and the new disc wasn't marked. They should be marked "flywheel side" or "this side out" but the new hecho en Mexico LUK disc wasn't (oversight? Laziness? Cost Savings?) As the discs both had the same P/N I used the old one as a guide to know which side went towards the flywheel. Was your disc marked? Honestly I can't remember if it was marked (I put it in several weekends ago when the engine was out) but I feel pretty confident that I matched the installation of the old disc. It would make me feel better to know that I couldn't put it on backward to rule that out as a cause.I'll be able to get a borescope this week and will hopefully be able to see that the straps are still in tact and that I just need to keep working on the pedal and maybe it will break loose.I can't think of anything else that could be in the way of the throw out bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 I have read something about o-rings on the hydraulic line going to the slave. I did not see any orings when I connected the old line to the new slave and just screwed it tight. Are there orings and could they be running afoul? My current bleeding experience is as follows: Open cap from master My dad puts the pedal all the way to the floor I crawl under and momentarily crack the bleeder; fluid and air explode from the bleeder, like there's a charge behind the fluid I immediately tighten the bleeder. This repeated about 20 times and it never really got any better. I know I'm supposed to bleed with a hose and a bottle with fluid in it, but lets focus on the charged fluid for a second. Is it possible that I've fouled an oring which is causing the pressure to build up at the bleeder screw? Or possibly something got in the line which is lodged in the path keeping fluid from going to the slave(such as a torn oring)? I have no leaks in the line so I would think if I had messed up an oring I would know it. I'm just spitballing here. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Quick update. After more bleeding and an even heavier clutch pedal, something loud popped inside the housing and drained the clutch fluid. Presumably a connection blew at the slave cylinder that was likely clogged to begin with. Looks like I'm pulling the tranny back out. `sigh` At least it's the hottest time of the year to be working outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'm losing my mind at this point and am nearly ready to load it up on a trailer and take it to someone who knows what they're doing. The current status is as follows: New clutch hydraulic line (old one blew in the middle of the hose) New slave Fairly new master (installed less than a thousand miles ago) Good stiff pedal feel- I have bled the thing until the cows came home (literally... the cows just came back to the barn). By using a borescope (fiber optic camera) I can confirm that the slave is pushing the throwout bearing which is pushing in the 'teeth' of the clutch cover Clutch will still not disengage. There is no perceptible difference in the engine sound or in difficulty to try to put transmission into gear when I push on the stiff clutch pedal. -I have not yet bothered to connect the t-case shift linkage and do not know what gear it is currently in. Could being in 4L, for instance, have any impact on my clutches ability to disengage? I don't see how. -Is it at all possible that, although I have a good firm pedal feel, there is still air in the slave which is keeping the throwout bearing from pushing against the clutch enough to disengage? When I watch the slave extend and push on the clutch cover, it doesn't look like it's moving it very far. -I do not see how it would be possible to install the clutch disc backwards due to the hat part not allowing the disc to sit flush on the flywheel but I'm beginning to think that may be the only answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 It sounds like the clutch hydraulics check out ok. On my LUK cluch I tried flipping the disc in both directions and it fit "ok." I thought one way worked a lot better than the other, which is why I went back to the old clutch and found the "this side out" mark on it. It sounds like you've confirmed something mechanically hanging up. Pg 5 of Georgia's build has a photo of the clutch installed: http://comancheclub.com/topic/37173-georgia-92-40-ho-ax-15-2wd/page-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 So here's one for the books: This morning I pulled my tranny and offed the clutch to see if, in fact, I was an dunce and had installed it backwards. I did not install backwards! There was a note on my clutch plate indicating which side goes to the flywheel. So I was stumped. Luckily, I had saved the old clutch so I could compare. New clutch on the left, old on the right. Note that the splined collar is longer on the new clutch. Since I'm using a '98 motor with an '89 BA10, I had to use a pilot bushing which fills in the recess in the crank. Since I couldn't figure anything else out, I wondered if the longer splined collar on the new clutch might be hitting the bushing and preventing the clutch from slipping on the pressure plate or the spring to release on the pressure plate. To test my idea, I chalked the end of the collar with blue grease and set it in place to see if it would mark the bushing. It did not. However, since I couldn't think of anything else that could possibly be the cause, and because the old clutch was actually in good shape, I decided to put the old clutch back in. 3 hours later... success!! the pedal had very little pressure but I was able to get it in 1st and 2nd. After a couple bleeds I had good pedal feel and I could shift in all gears. Finally, after 4 months of off/on work, the Comanche lives! Hopefully this will help others who have needed to use a pilot bushing instead of a bearing; Be sure the clutch plate does not have the extended collar on the spline. Mine was a Valeo and I only got it because it was on closeout through RockAuto. I really only needed a new slave but bought the whole kit because of the sale price. live and learn. now I just need to put the front clip back on and adapt the temp sensor to the t-stat housing and I'll be good to go. thank you all for your advice so far. Also, I tried to put the clutch in backward and the space within my '89 flywheel would not allow the center 'hat' of the clutch disc to sit flush. At least in my case, I do not think it could easily go in backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Good for you in figuring it out. It always helps when the manufacturers ship parts that don't fit, and forget to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 So the clutch disc was binding up, but not for the reason anyone had guessed. That is indeed one for the books. Glad she's back on the road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik666 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 great news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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