I'm Gonna Slash - Overheating Saga - Yes, Still!!!

[nitroxsteve]

 

 

Well, I'm about 17.3% convinced that at least 1/2 of the stuff I've done might fix 88.9% of my problems.  I'm sure that if I reduce my speed by 14%  I'll probably get .00397% benefit in my tire wear.  If I reduce the tire size by 22.496% I'll probably take the Ranger to Jackson Hole...depending on the size of the first pot hole I hit on Hwy 97.

Pure frickin genius!! Did you use a slide rule? I'm about 99% sure all this mathmatical stuff is 100% bull$#!& regarding your issues with overheating.

There is a 12.995 % chance he used an abacus not a slide rule.

[Oyaji]

 

Well, I'm about 17.3% convinced that at least 1/2 of the stuff I've done might fix 88.9% of my problems.  I'm sure that if I reduce my speed by 14%  I'll probably get .00397% benefit in my tire wear.  If I reduce the tire size by 22.496% I'll probably take the Ranger to Jackson Hole...depending on the size of the first pot hole I hit on Hwy 97.

 

EDIT:  What I really meant to say was ... Duh! What?? So, In one sentence, what should I do to fix that...in another sentence...Why is it that I see completely neglected P'sOS driving down the highway doing 75 with a meth head behind the wheel with all their windows rolled up and their A/C blasting towing a fishing boat with 4 inner tubes tied on top and they are NOT over heating?!?

.

It would appear that being so deeply invested in your belief of a cooling system fault after you have spent significant time, money, and effort on wasteful and needless replacement  of parts that proved to be perfectly good has made you resistant to the possibility of the true fault being something you have yourself suspected for months. That only adds another problem: that belief itself does not change facts. The fact is that you still have an overheating problem - and by refusing to investigate a different avenue of potential causality, you are getting no closer to a solution. Getting mad at the messenger will not help solve the problem either - though perhaps it made you feel better. :D

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To answer your first question, "In one sentence,  what should I do   to fix that?": you should start by answering the question "Did you correct the speedometer for using 3.07 final drive instead of the 3.55 stock pairing the AW4 is supposed to use?", and, if not, either re-gear your final drive (which you need to do anyway in order to regain anything like the stock performance  that you gave up when you decided you knew enough about automotive design when you  modified your vehicle), add additional water pump flow capacity and accept the 15 MPG you get with your current setup and the possibility of additional problems arising  later from at least a partial lugging condition, or slow down your cruise speed to something your current setup will sustain without overheating; if in fact you have re-calibrated your speedo for your non-stock powertrain, investigate problems that  may derive from your AW4 swap (potential torque converter and  electronic/electrical control  faults come to mind).

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Sorry the previous sentence is so long, but you asked for it. :P

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edit - I see I forgot to answer your second question regarding why the meth head's car is not overheating. The correct answer is, you would have to ask him - I don't have enough information to make a judgement. But if  I had to take a stab at it, I'd  make a guess that his vehicle is not modified, and so  from the factory he has sufficient reserve power and cooling  capacity that his vehicle does not overheat..

[ParadiseMJ]

 

 

 

Sorry the previous sentence is so long, but you asked for it. ;P

You're right...I did.

 

So, I thank you for your interest and investment in this thread and my problem.  Frustration has a way of affecting me in a cynical way.  Sorry if it sounded like I was mocking you but, for what it's worth, your knowledge and "figuring" is, admittedly, over my head. No hard feelings. 

 

That said, I found something "physical" on the Jeep that could explain part my cooling problem.  As I was taking everything apart to replace the radiator I had to unbolt the A/C condenser to separate it from the radiator.  This has given me pause about replacing the radiator at all.  If I'm right, I may not need to replace the radiator at all.  Previously I have thought I could just spray off the condenser and backflush it from the engine side as well...and it would be all good.  There was no mud, no grass, no cow manure (I got it off a farm, yknow), no mouse nests, bees etc etc.

 

Well....out here in CA, we don't use salt on the roads in the winter, part of the reason we don't have rusted vehicles.   It gets snowy and slippery in the mountains, but the rest of the state might see an inch of snow all winter, if that.  Wisely IMHO, CalTrans, DOT, whatever, uses what we got...either sand or DG (Decomposed Granite) which is a kind of rough angular sand that provides traction and leaves no chemical residue.

 

What with me being a bonafide Senior Citizen and sight-challenged as well as crippled up with what seems to be the onset of arthritis, I've never really gotten "up close and personal" with my A/C condenser.  I did today!!  When I did, I found that my condenser is FULL of DG.  Again, not meaning to be a D**K, my condenser is about 75-80% clogged with freakin' MF'n DG.  Every single slot has at least 4-5 grains of this stuff, some slots are completely clogged. Each "grain" is about 1/32".   It seems each slot is double folded for maximum effectiveness and the stinkin' sand is even stuck in between the folds.

 

So, tomorrow I'm going put off the radiator job and clean the crap out of my condenser, with water, soap, compressed air as well as 409 and Purple Power until it's clean as a whistle and I can see through it...right now, I can't see the light of a 3D Mag light through it.  Then I'm going to fill it with water and go for a 3rd gear drive.  Who knows, maybe I can get my $$ back for the radiator.  It also may explain why the solution to this has been so elusive.

 

Thanks again.

[HOrnbrod]

A clogged condenser would most likely cause an air flow through the radiator problem, not a coolant flow problem. That should cause overheating while idling in traffic more than going up hills at speed. In any event it should be cleaned, and I hope it does the trick. Let us know how it does bro.

 

Also, since I don't remember reading this, do you know which speedometer gear you have installed? For 31" tires w. 3.07 gears you should have a 27T long shaft gear in there, p/n J3212727.

[Oyaji]

A clogged condenser would most likely cause an air flow through the radiator problem, not a coolant flow problem. That should cause overheating while idling in traffic more than going up hills at speed. In any event it should be cleaned, and I hope it does the trick. Let us know how it does bro.

 

Also, since I don't remember reading this, do you know which speedometer gear you have installed? For 31" tires w. 3.07 gears you should have a 27T long shaft gear in there, p/n J3212727.

:agree: - (but I have to take on faith that bit about the part number, that is outside my experience).

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[Oyaji]

 

 

 

 

Sorry the previous sentence is so long, but you asked for it. :P

You're right...I did.

 

So, I thank you for your interest and investment in this thread and my problem.  Frustration has a way of affecting me in a cynical way.  Sorry if it sounded like I was mocking you but, for what it's worth, your knowledge and "figuring" is, admittedly, over my head. No hard feelings. 

 

That said, I found something "physical" on the Jeep that could explain part my cooling problem.  As I was taking everything apart to replace the radiator I had to unbolt the A/C condenser to separate it from the radiator.  This has given me pause about replacing the radiator at all.  If I'm right, I may not need to replace the radiator at all.  Previously I have thought I could just spray off the condenser and backflush it from the engine side as well...and it would be all good.  There was no mud, no grass, no cow manure (I got it off a farm, yknow), no mouse nests, bees etc etc.

 

Well....out here in CA, we don't use salt on the roads in the winter, part of the reason we don't have rusted vehicles.   It gets snowy and slippery in the mountains, but the rest of the state might see an inch of snow all winter, if that.  Wisely IMHO, CalTrans, DOT, whatever, uses what we got...either sand or DG (Decomposed Granite) which is a kind of rough angular sand that provides traction and leaves no chemical residue.

 

What with me being a bonafide Senior Citizen and sight-challenged as well as crippled up with what seems to be the onset of arthritis, I've never really gotten "up close and personal" with my A/C condenser.  I did today!!  When I did, I found that my condenser is FULL of DG.  Again, not meaning to be a D**K, my condenser is about 75-80% clogged with freakin' MF'n DG.  Every single slot has at least 4-5 grains of this stuff, some slots are completely clogged. Each "grain" is about 1/32".   It seems each slot is double folded for maximum effectiveness and the stinkin' sand is even stuck in between the folds.

 

So, tomorrow I'm going put off the radiator job and clean the crap out of my condenser, with water, soap, compressed air as well as 409 and Purple Power until it's clean as a whistle and I can see through it...right now, I can't see the light of a 3D Mag light through it.  Then I'm going to fill it with water and go for a 3rd gear drive.  Who knows, maybe I can get my $$ back for the radiator.  It also may explain why the solution to this has been so elusive.

 

Thanks again.

.

Apology freely given, freely accepted. No hard feelings at all - I want to see you get this sorted out. For my part, I guess since I have worked all my life with the math of figuring  out this sort of stuff  that I am used to solving a lot of it in my head, and when I write it down maybe I take too many shortcuts for it to be easily followed. If you or others have the interest, I'll break down the steps and the logic more finely  and detailed so that it  is  easier  to follow... but if you  just want the  solution, I regret to say that it isn't as simple as that until the problem is nailed down. We are still in the "detective" stage, and so I am still trying to work out the logic of possible faults and solutions for them. You must have heard the carpenter's saying, "Measure twice, cut once - but measure once, cut twice", right? Wherever possible I want to make thinking substitute for expenditure of effort and money - and you can bet that I will always shoot for offering solutions that start with the cheapest possible first.

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To that end, one thing has been bothering me about the top gear in both 5-speed and AW4 transmissions - are they not both overdrives around 0.80:1 ratio? That begs  the question: why then do they use different final drives? The only thing that has been coming to my mind for weeks now is that it must have to do with the torque converter and the shifting programming. I know that for automatic transmissions, the designing engineers do their best to make them  as idiot-proof as they can. Since I lack design experience for  them, I have to guess that automatic transmissions must be made to accommodate drivers who haven't got the sense (different from stick drivers such as yourself) to downshift under high load conditions, and that the torque converter must be part be part of the solution for said accommodation. But with final drive so very different from the manual transmission's  final drive ratio, I find myself guessing that the engine management programming (for  both fuel injection and ignition advance curves) could be different depending on transmission choice - but find myself expecting that the automatic transmission logic routine more likely is responsible for proper running conditions. Can any reader verify the accuracy of these guesses and conclusions? And is there anyone who knows definitively not only the torque converter lockup conditions, but also how the logic is programmed and implemented?

.

In any case, there is no denying that the AW4 is supposed to be paired with 3.55 final drive, and that the stock  215/75 R15 tire diameter is 27" (though I have read here that some Comanches shipped with  slightly bigger tires - 225/75 R15s?). I also know that the digital engine management system (fuel injection and ignition advance maps) will accommodate a certain amount of fudging  away from the stock setup... but I suspect you have gone  too far outside the load the ECU's programming and engine can deliver within the stock cooling capacity.

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If you can't come up with the speedometer correction gear  for AW4 with 3.07 final drive and 31" tires (Hornbrod mentioned the part number above in his post) in order to run an  overheating test at  a correct speed of 70 mph in 3rd gear (being sure to note the RPM), is there any chance you have on hand or could borrow some tires  smaller than stock   already mounted on rims that would fit your truck for a test run   with your original speedometer gear?  Provided  the backspacing is adequate and the lug pattern is 5 on 4.5", for the short-term purposes  of a one-run test you  or a friend might have tires and wheels on a second car that would do (I don't want to cost you any money,  and as little effort as possible - that is the point here - I think you have  spent way too much already, all to no avail). It  may seem  and look absolutely ridiculous, but I reckon you would need 23" diameter tires   for this test (that is, 4" less in diameter than stock, on any size rim with 5 on 4.5 and adequate backspacing).  At least it is only for one run!... but the longer and more thorough the run, the better the test.

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Make sure to fit the old original speedo drive gear (easy enough, right?), fit the tiny tires (don't forget to air them up to the tire maker's maximum  inflation pressure listed on the tire sidewall, and to torque the  lug nuts down properly), and then go blast up your trouble hill  in top gear at indicated 70 mph (which should be dead-on accurate as stock for true ground speed).  Hell, go as fast as you   dare if you ain't afeared o' the law, or of crashing!   :D ... then  come back and let us know the results.

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If you ask, I will provide my reckoning and work out all the steps - but I have had enough outbursts from the kibitzers in the peanut gallery than to want to  provide the math unsolicited  lest I provoke them again (or you could ask me via PM if you like).

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That, plus I'd like to avoid unnecessary wear on my abacus.   ;).          

[Oyaji]

Regarding your task of cleaning all the sand and decomposed granite chips out of your air conditioning condenser, there is maybe a simple tool available to help make that job less tedious. I remember there being a "condenser comb" offered for sale (I don't know who sells them - I suppose you could ask around though - start at Lowe's?). It's primary intended use is to straighten bent cooling fins, but I am guessing it would be worth a try to help dig out all the little grains jammed in there between the fins, too.

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Worth a try? That little gizmo has got to be cheap enough to warrant a trial, right?.

[FrankTheDog]

And then? Was it the DG in the condensor?

[ParadiseMJ]

Don't know, although I got a pile of it out of there.  Literally a pile...a good handful of it...I can see thru the condenser now...I put a new OEM radiator in it, still have some things to work out.

 

I'm on a vacation from working on the Jeep   Gotta build a fence.  Truck is back on the road (around town, anyway) and hasn't overheated, but until I can get it out on the highway the jury is still out.

[Exgrayxj]

And the verdict is ... ?

[ParadiseMJ]

The verdict is:

 

• The fence is not done yet...it's 230 feet of redwood fence, by myself, one paycheck at a time.
• The roof has a leak at the skylight flashing.
• I'm working mostly double shifts at work.

But...I've officially ruled out the cooling system itself as my problem.  I got (swapped) smaller tires to compensate a little for the gearing.  As far as I can tell the trans. wiring is making it either never lock the TC or always lock the TC. 

 

http://comancheclub.com/topic/40380-facing-my-weakness-electrics/

 

...and so it goes. 

[Esgar]

Any new updates on this thing yet? I'm seeing so much headache and frustration here, it's saddening honestly.

[ParadiseMJ]

I'm driving it. It's not overheating. I still need to fix some of the wiring (TCC switch, NSS needs to be replaced).  I still need new gears (axles) but money and time and time and money are not in agreement.

 

I've learned a lot about my truck, frustration is a good thing sometimes, I'm not sad, I hope I haven't made anyone sad.

[cruiser54]

I'm a frickin' emotional wreck. Overcome with sadness!!

 

BTW, what's the deal on the TCC. Without one, the TC would be locked most always on decel. .

[ParadiseMJ]

I'm a frickin' emotional wreck. Overcome with sadness!!

 

BTW, what's the deal on the TCC. Without one, the TC would be locked most always on decel. .

 

:laughin:

 

I found a TCC from an XJ at the yard...BUT...the pedal assembly does not have the crosspiece and the "hole" to put the ting in.  I have the wiring complete up to the connector.  I also have another pedal assy. with the right hole.  It does in fact feel like the TC is locked.  Like I said...I'm driving it, but not a lot, until I get a better NSS (one I can re-furb) and the TCC dialed in.  The cracked NSS that's in there is kinda working, as in I can start it.

 

It hasn't overheated :banana: ...that's pretty much the ONLY reason I have not taken an overdose of sleeping pills   

 

EDIT: Well, that, and I just refuse to submit to defeat.  :brows:

[cruiser54]

How about just grounding the wire to theTCU to fool it into thinking the brake pedal is applied in the meantime?

[ParadiseMJ]

I'll try that...thanks.  Maybe it'll cheer me up :(

[cruiser54]

I'll try that...thanks.  Maybe it'll cheer me up :(

Then celebrate with some tequila?

[ParadiseMJ]

I already did that...*hic*  :yes:

[cruiser54]

I already did that...*hic*  :yes:

Celebrated before grounding the TCU wire?