daltonmcgill7 Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 fuel pump went out gas tanks rusted out gonna try an external pump and this can anybody tell me how to build it I'm confused would this even work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 External fuel pump and fuel cell would work, using that probably won't. You will need to have a feed and return line. The most common external pump (and the one I have on my Comanche) is the E2000 pump. You can walk into any auto parts store and they will have that in stock, just have them cross reference that number (Advance Auto had that number in their parts list and even had it in stock). For fuel cell, I'm running a Jaz 22 gallon fuel cell since it was the largest I could find with a fuel sender that fits it. You can get up to a 38 gallon (maybe larger but that's the largest I saw when I was looking) but the fuel senders won't fit in there. If you don't care about the fuel gauge then that's a mute point but I like seeing how much gas in there since I drive my Comanche on the street most of the time. If driven on the street a lot, you will also want to get the gas tank foam (it's foam blocks that prevents splashing). Stay far away from the Jaz foam though as that stuff breaks up really fast and clogs the fuel filters (ask me how I know...). You will also want to put a pre-pump filter in the line also since you won't be using the in tank strainer anymore. I just use a clear carb filter as there is no pressure on the tank side of the pump and lets me see how dirty the filter is. If you're looking for some pictures, I'm sure there are a bunch in my build thread (link is in my signature). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Why couldn't I just drill a hole for the return line? Just wonderimg because I already have one of these tanks laying around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 also could i use the fuel pump out of a 84 xj 2.8 i have laying around and seal the holes in my gas tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I really wouldn't trust a tank like that but I can't stop you if you want to run it. Unless you are running a carb setup, a 2.8L pump won't work as it bolts to the side of the engine. That pump will not put out anything close in pressure to what a fuel injection setup requires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 well the tank is gonna be inside of the tool box will this pump work? http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Airtex-Products-10-to-14-PSI-20-to-25-GPH-electric-fuel-pump/_/N-255s?itemIdentifier=76843 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubpilot Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Can't you still buy new fuel tanks? When mine rusted out about 8 years ago my local auto parts store got me one, it was cheap too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 No, that pump won't work. Read the first line, "Carbureted Gas or Diesel Applications." Everything besides the GM TBI setup requires a lot more than 14psi, the GPH also sounsd extremely low. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Airtex-Master-Fuel-Pump/_/N-8vcz2?itemIdentifier=386516_0_0_ That is the easiest to find pump you will need. When you're getting into the part of starting to mount things in tool boxes and rerunning fuel lines, you are better off with a new stock tank as they aren't that expensive. I mainly did my setup since I started with a carb'd vehicle and I swapped to a SBC 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 ive found a comanche gas tank but its got surface rust on the inside how would i clean it also where could i get a pump for it? thanks for your help. :thumbsup: id just like to know everything before i go and buy the gas tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 i found my old pump after hours of looking i knew i had it somewhere but the strainer and fuel sender is missing and i honestly don't care how much gas i have ill just keep a gas can.but where could i get a strainer and how would i put it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Well my fuel pump is fried oh well what would be the cheapest pump I could use so that I can get it running its been sitting for 5 years not running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I use acetone to clean the inside of tanks. Dissolves varnish nicely. Then if you need something stronger, use muratic acid and warm water. slosh it around with some nuts and bolts inside. Some use marbles or something else that will scratch the surface while sloshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 I use acetone to clean the inside of tanks. Dissolves varnish nicely. Then if you need something stronger, use muratic acid and warm water. slosh it around with some nuts and bolts inside. Some use marbles or something else that will scratch the surface while sloshing. ok thanks :thumbsup: No, that pump won't work. Read the first line, "Carbureted Gas or Diesel Applications." Everything besides the GM TBI setup requires a lot more than 14psi, the GPH also sounsd extremely low. http://www.autozone....ier=386516_0_0_ That is the easiest to find pump you will need. When you're getting into the part of starting to mount things in tool boxes and rerunning fuel lines, you are better off with a new stock tank as they aren't that expensive. I mainly did my setup since I started with a carb'd vehicle and I swapped to a SBC 350. could i use the stock gas tank use my fuel pump that dosent work and put it all back together and run the external pump?would that work?also i don't have anything but the pump and bracket it sits in no strainer or float.or can i just put a fuel filter between the gas tank and the pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 If I understand you correctly, yes, you can do that. When you mount the external in-line pump, you need to be sure that it is mounted as close to the tank as possible, and at a level with the fuel level at its lowest point. If you don't, you can have problems picking up the fuel. Just install a fuel filter that can handle the pressure/suction, and it needs to be just before the pump, not after it. Not those cheap plastic filters. Here is a picture of one I did: Notice the filter is protecting the pump. Notice the pump is tilted slightly up on the output end. Also notice the pump is mounted just below half way down the tank. This helps the pickup properties. On this installation, the computer turns on the pump for 5 seconds to build up pressure for faster starts. The return line is not hooked up yet in this picture, but it is necessary to keep flow. Those pumps aren't cheep, so you might want to hit a JY. You are looking for an E2000 pump. Used on many Ford Vans, common in JY's. Someone correct me please if i'm mistaken here but IIRC that is the pump to get... The one picture is not an E2000 but an equivalent aftermarket one made by Carter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I linked to the E2000 pump above. The pump is under $100 so it isn't all that expensive to just buy new. You might run into issues if you keep your stock pump in place. Just remove the pump and put a section of fuel line in its place to remove that restriction. Also, you do not need a high pressure fuel filter if put before the pump. There is no pressure there, just volume. I use a clear plastic carb filter so I can see how the filter is doing and it feeds my 5.7L V8 just fine (even requires a bit higher pressure than the 4.0L). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Correct you don't need a filter on the outlet side. You do need one on the inlet side to protect the pump. I have seen a couple of those plastic filters split open before, so I never recommend using them. Yeah, they probably will be fine, but a car fire is just not worth the risk to me and my family. I agree the old pump is best removed, but it is not a positive displacement style, so it should flow through without too much restrictions, but yeah, i'd remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I was talking about the inlet side (between the pump and gas tank) for the plastic ones. I would not use the carb one on the outlet side (pump to injectors) as that is where the pressure is and those little plastic ones with the paper inserts will blow apart. I still prefer to run one on both sides of the filter to make sure if anything gets through the pump, the injectors and engine will stay fine. Those plastic housings should stay in one piece if put only on the lower pressure side of the pump so there shouldn't be an issue with fire as the fuel system is a contained system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I was talking about the inlet side (between the pump and gas tank) for the plastic ones. I would not use the carb one on the outlet side (pump to injectors) as that is where the pressure is and those little plastic ones with the paper inserts will blow apart. I still prefer to run one on both sides of the filter to make sure if anything gets through the pump, the injectors and engine will stay fine. Those plastic housings should stay in one piece if put only on the lower pressure side of the pump so there shouldn't be an issue with fire as the fuel system is a contained system. Agh! gotcha, I mis-read your post. When you were saying " I use a clear plastic carb filter so I can see how the filter is doing and it feeds my 5.7L V8 just fine (even requires a bit higher pressure than the 4.0L)." I took that for the pressure side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Stock replacement gas tank at Rock Auto is $97 for the swb and $130 for the lwb. Use your existing pump and sender. Cheaper and simpler to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Stock replacement gas tank at Rock Auto is $97 for the swb and $130 for the lwb. Use your existing pump and sender. Cheaper and simpler to go that route. His pump isn't working... ok thanks :thumbsup: could i use the stock gas tank use my fuel pump that dosent work and put it all back together and run the external pump?would that work?also i don't have anything but the pump and bracket it sits in no strainer or float.or can i just put a fuel filter between the gas tank and the pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daltonmcgill7 Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 If I understand you correctly, yes, you can do that. When you mount the external in-line pump, you need to be sure that it is mounted as close to the tank as possible, and at a level with the fuel level at its lowest point. If you don't, you can have problems picking up the fuel. Just install a fuel filter that can handle the pressure/suction, and it needs to be just before the pump, not after it. Not those cheap plastic filters. Here is a picture of one I did: Notice the filter is protecting the pump. Notice the pump is tilted slightly up on the output end. Also notice the pump is mounted just below half way down the tank. This helps the pickup properties. On this installation, the computer turns on the pump for 5 seconds to build up pressure for faster starts. The return line is not hooked up yet in this picture, but it is necessary to keep flow. Those pumps aren't cheep, so you might want to hit a JY. You are looking for an E2000 pump. Used on many Ford Vans, common in JY's. Someone correct me please if i'm mistaken here but IIRC that is the pump to get... The one picture is not an E2000 but an equivalent aftermarket one made by Carter. thank you so much this is what i was looking for. :banana: I linked to the E2000 pump above. The pump is under $100 so it isn't all that expensive to just buy new. You might run into issues if you keep your stock pump in place. Just remove the pump and put a section of fuel line in its place to remove that restriction. Also, you do not need a high pressure fuel filter if put before the pump. There is no pressure there, just volume. I use a clear plastic carb filter so I can see how the filter is doing and it feeds my 5.7L V8 just fine (even requires a bit higher pressure than the 4.0L). so your saying put a peice of hose where the fuel pump is now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Not wanting to speak for Mr. Garvin, but just in case you need a quick answer i'll share with you what I would do. Doesn't mean it is the only way, just my way... Remove the old pump, but before you do, measure the distance from the flange (tank mounting surface) to the end of the pickup tube. once the old pump is off, id cut a piece of tubing same diameter, preferably aluminum, but steel or copper will work. Cut that tube so that if you but the end of it up to the end of the remaining tube it is the length you measured. Of cours it may have a bend in the cut tube so that it matches the one uou cut off. Splice the two metal tubes together using a piece of rubber hose as the coupling. Attach a small hose clamp on each end, and so now when you drop the sender back into the tank, it is a copy of the original but without the pump inline. The reason i'd not dangle a rubber hose into the tank is because they tend to curl up and you might limit the usable fuel in the bottom of the tank by a few gallons. I'd want that pickup as rigid as possible. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garvin Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Not wanting to speak for Mr. Garvin, but just in case you need a quick answer i'll share with you what I would do. Doesn't mean it is the only way, just my way... Remove the old pump, but before you do, measure the distance from the flange (tank mounting surface) to the end of the pickup tube. once the old pump is off, id cut a piece of tubing same diameter, preferably aluminum, but steel or copper will work. Cut that tube so that if you but the end of it up to the end of the remaining tube it is the length you measured. Of cours it may have a bend in the cut tube so that it matches the one uou cut off. Splice the two metal tubes together using a piece of rubber hose as the coupling. Attach a small hose clamp on each end, and so now when you drop the sender back into the tank, it is a copy of the original but without the pump inline. The reason i'd not dangle a rubber hose into the tank is because they tend to curl up and you might limit the usable fuel in the bottom of the tank by a few gallons. I'd want that pickup as rigid as possible. Hope that helps. First time I got called Mr. Garvin. lol That's actually the correct way of doing it but you can also use rubber hose and figure out a way to tie it off at the bottom to prevent it from just floating on the top of the fuel. Also don't use just any ordinary rubber hose, use fuel line as the regular vacuum type hose will just deteriate in the gasoline. If doing everything the correct way, it's going to be much cheaper and simpler to just get a new stock tank and new fuel pump and just swap over your sender. My cell cost me $270 shipped (with the level sender and foam), pump cost around $75, new aluminum fuel lines around $50, plus the time and hassle to set everything up and route it correctly. I bought the middle of the road stuff also as I'm not made of money and didn't want the stuff to break on me in a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 His pump isn't working... In that case, then why not just replace the pump? Between $40 and $70 depending on what brand you want. Bosch is $64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotex Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 In that case, then why not just replace the pump? Between $40 and $70 depending on what brand you want. Bosch is $64. In the very beginning of this post, everyone said just replace the tank/pump etc... OP wants to do it his way for whatever reasons. I'm just making a suggestion on how I would do the requested repair. Not saying at all that that is the proper course of action. I like to fix things that break as good as, or better than the factory. But hey, i'm not driven by money either. I'm just going to assume the OP has his reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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