Sir Sam Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Thanks for the info. I had not researched the JK 44 before and did not know the differences, which are obvious. I am pleasantly surprised because of the near-fraud Daimler pulled with the TJ's alleged D44 front. Don't know why they are bending so often. I wonder if the suspension stresses are just right to make them susceptible to bending? Ya my buddy bought a jeep about 5 years ago with a TJ D44 front and rear, 4.10s, and locked. He swapped the axles into his Jeep and put his old ones into the other jeep to sell it. He went from a HP D30 and a 8.25 rear, to a LP TJ D44 front and a D44 rear. Local guy got a TJ D44 housing for free, I was thinking of buying it off of him and building it with stock parts from takeoff TJs, and then selling it for stupid money. Guys still pay stupid money for a TJ D44 front.......when there is really no reason to pay more than you would for a HP D30 front with gears and a locker. Really the only upgrade he got was 4.10 gearing and front and rear lockers, he did not get any strength upgrade. Very true! I found a JK30 and 44 rear for 1200 and I knew the guy who owned the JK an sold the axles for 600. Very wealthy man lol he bought a set of dynatrac 60s :drool: And sold the axles to a guy in my local club. Ya but the JK30 front has no value to us.....only to someone needing to replace a JK D30 front..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I don't know what people near you are smoking but 5,500 for a set of JK axles?! I've seen a JK30-JK44 set sell for $600 rotor to rotor! I actually can get coil buckets from a d30 for free and people are selling the JK takeoff rims with tires for 100-250 depending what tires are on them, they're not that sought after anymore here. I would stay with 15" rims anyway because tires are cheaper with smaller rim sizes and many people have 33s-35s and ive seen a few deals on 37s with 15" rims! Basically I would buy the axle sleeves, trackbar mount and perches or make UBEs. I probably wouldn't have to do ball joints until I put the 37s on anyway. If I can even find a set of axles for sale I really wouldn't have that much fab work or parts to buy. I have friends with D60s front and rear, 14b rears and I understand how strong they are but I don't NEED it. People are selling front HP44s around 5-800 bucks! :nuts: and I see D60 rears selling way above 400 whereas it seems they're around 200 every other part of the US :roll: I was not talking about a JK D30/44 set. I was talking about a JK RUBICON D44/D44 set. The ones with factory lockers and deeper gears. Feel free to do your own Google search for the axle set that I was talking about and check the prices. My search was not local but brought in responses from ebay, pirate, etc... I noted the 5,500 as an extreme and said 3,500 was a common price. JK rims are hard to give away as many are ugly, they have limited appeal to anyone but JK or Grand Chero people due to the bolt pattern, and they came for the most part with very crappy tires. Goodyear SR-A's are horrid. Anyone swapping a JK D30 into an MJ is spending time,money, and effort with very little pay-off. Why pay to change the suspension mounts over choosing a butt-cheap bolt-in XJ D30? And then have a differing bolt pattern? What is the width of those HP44's you see for sale? The most common ones, Ford, are 69" or greater wms-wms depending on the app. How many people are getting stuck with the near-worthless (unless you use the Ford radius arms) 78-79 version with cast in radius arm wedges because they are buying a "hp44" without realizing they are not all the same? ( http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format ... 0293882881 )Although the HP design gets you a stronger ring & pinion set that is not a real weakness in the LP D44. They still have the smallish 297 u-joints used in many HP30 & most all LP D44's and the same ball-joints and those are the weak links in the D44, not the ring & pinion. The difference between LP & HP on the D30 is much greater as that IS a weak link on the D30. A D60 rear is not all that great of a step-up unless it is drilled for the larger 35 spline axles. Full-floater D60's are lucky to sell for $150 here due to that. To compete with a 14 bolt you need the D70HD ( not 70U or the other versions) or a D80. There is no comparison between a front D44, HP or LP, and a front D60 and the selling point for a D60 front is well within that $500-$800 range you list for the HP44's. Hmmm overkill and a margin of error or pushing something to the limits and keeping your fingers crossed for the same money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ya my buddy bought a jeep about 5 years ago with a TJ D44 front and rear, 4.10s, and locked. He swapped the axles into his Jeep and put his old ones into the other jeep to sell it. He went from a HP D30 and a 8.25 rear, to a LP TJ D44 front and a D44 rear. Local guy got a TJ D44 housing for free, I was thinking of buying it off of him and building it with stock parts from takeoff TJs, and then selling it for stupid money. Guys still pay stupid money for a TJ D44 front.......when there is really no reason to pay more than you would for a HP D30 front with gears and a locker. Really the only upgrade he got was 4.10 gearing and front and rear lockers, he did not get any strength upgrade. Ya but the JK30 front has no value to us.....only to someone needing to replace a JK D30 front..... Wow. I wonder what it cost him to go from apples to apples on that axle swap? The difference between a 29 spline 8.25 and a D44 rear are moot. And with the same u-joints the HP30 & the LP hybrid LP 44 are a wash. But he did buy the bragging right of having RUBI AXLES!!!! :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I would be curious about the axle stub shafts and unit bearing set-up. Although the D44 uses a larger ring/pinion, the TJ's versions at least were a low-pinion design that makes it closer in strength to a high-pinion D30 than many are willing to admit. This is very true, the TJ D44 is basically a glorified dana 30. The JK D44 is very different, nothing is shared with the TJ D30 or D44. Bigger shafts, bigger u joints, Bigger Cs, bigger unit bearings.... According to Autozone and Advance Auto Parts, the Jk axles (both 30 and 44) use standard D44 u joints. These are the same ones as the TJ Rubicon 44 and the larger u joint D30 ones. Spicer part number 5-297x, or 5-760x for the stronger cold forged non-cross drilled ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Wow. I wonder what it cost him to go from apples to apples on that axle swap? The difference between a 29 spline 8.25 and a D44 rear are moot. And with the same u-joints the HP30 & the LP hybrid LP 44 are a wash. But he did buy the bragging right of having RUBI AXLES!!!! :bowdown: Actually he made a few thousand selling the XJ with the stock axles. And ya, 29 spline 8.25 and D44 rear is a total wash......The Dana 44 has slightly thicker shafts, but weaker tubes, the 8.25 has slightly smaller shafts, but stronger tubes..... I would be curious about the axle stub shafts and unit bearing set-up. Although the D44 uses a larger ring/pinion, the TJ's versions at least were a low-pinion design that makes it closer in strength to a high-pinion D30 than many are willing to admit. This is very true, the TJ D44 is basically a glorified dana 30. The JK D44 is very different, nothing is shared with the TJ D30 or D44. Bigger shafts, bigger u joints, Bigger Cs, bigger unit bearings.... According to Autozone and Advance Auto Parts, the Jk axles (both 30 and 44) use standard D44 u joints. These are the same ones as the TJ Rubicon 44 and the larger u joint D30 ones. Spicer part number 5-297x, or 5-760x for the stronger cold forged non-cross drilled ones. The bottom joint in this photo is a 297 U joint from a XJ D30. The upper u-joint is the JK Dana 44 with the spicer 799 u-joint. The JK Dana 44 front axle shafts use a spicer 799 ujoint.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The bottom joint in this photo is a 297 U joint from a XJ D30. The upper u-joint is the JK Dana 44 with the spicer 799 u-joint. The JK Dana 44 front axle shafts use a spicer 799 ujoint.. The Spicer 5-799x u joint is discontinued, and is an outside snap ring 1350 series joint for a driveshaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The bottom joint in this photo is a 297 U joint from a XJ D30. The upper u-joint is the JK Dana 44 with the spicer 799 u-joint. The JK Dana 44 front axle shafts use a spicer 799 ujoint.. The Spicer 5-799x u joint is discontinued, and is an outside snap ring 1350 series joint for a driveshaft. I see that in google search results. I don't know what to tell you other than that is what the u-joints on my JK Dana 44 front have in them. Would you like to see a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motion Offroad Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 JK D44 uses Spicer 5004891 JK D30 uses Spicer 5-760X TJ D44 uses Spicer 5-760X (as it's D30 outers) The 5-760X and the 5004891 are NOT the same. The 5004891 is not discontinued by any means (we have 17 on the shelf). Specs: 5004891 Inside Snap Ring Cup Size= 1.188in. Snap Ring To Snap Ring= 2.500in. 5-760X Inside Snap Ring Cup Size= 1.188in. Snap Ring To Snap Ring= 2.188in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 This is driving me nutso.... This is the u-joint in my JK dana 44 front: http://www.moparsupercenter.com/images/ ... h=740&wm=1 I was thinking that label meant spicer 799.......but who knows what the hell that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motion Offroad Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 This is driving me nutso.... This is the u-joint in my JK dana 44 front: http://www.moparsupercenter.com/images/ ... h=740&wm=1 I was thinking that label meant spicer 799.......but who knows what the hell that means. I'm not at the shop and won't be until the 30th as we'll be in Daytona Beach all next week for Jeep Beach, but if I can remember when I get back I'll grab a 5004891 and pull it out of the box and see if it has any additional #'s on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 JK D44 uses Spicer 5004891JK D30 uses Spicer 5-760X TJ D44 uses Spicer 5-760X (as it's D30 outers) The 5-760X and the 5004891 are NOT the same. The 5004891 is not discontinued by any means (we have 17 on the shelf). Specs: 5004891 Inside Snap Ring Cup Size= 1.188in. Snap Ring To Snap Ring= 2.500in. 5-760X Inside Snap Ring Cup Size= 1.188in. Snap Ring To Snap Ring= 2.188in Thanks.....I was going nuts trying to use my micrometer without a battery so I went and bought one. I was looking at sizing guides that did not include the 5004891 Also, I measure snap ring to snap ring(K dimension shown below) as 2.4" exactly now with a new battery. And the cup size measures 1.188. from: http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazin ... joints.htm This is driving me nutso.... This is the u-joint in my JK dana 44 front: http://www.moparsupercenter.com/images/ ... h=740&wm=1 I was thinking that label meant spicer 799.......but who knows what the hell that means. I'm not at the shop and won't be until the 30th as we'll be in Daytona Beach all next week for Jeep Beach, but if I can remember when I get back I'll grab a 5004891 and pull it out of the box and see if it has any additional #'s on it. Eh don't bother, I have two here in my axles so I suspect I know what they have on them........it was just kinda weird since I'm used to seeing 297 on a ujoint meaning its a 297, I saw that 799 and figured thats what it was.... But it was nice that at least you could confirm it was a different U-joint.....which is why I also could not find it in any of the typical sizing guides out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirteatr717 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Good info guys! Thank you for the input!!! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RynoMJ Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Good info guys! Thank you for the input!!! :cheers: Shotty your 44! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirteatr717 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 It's already been called for man sorry! And don't you have a 8.8?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RynoMJ Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Yea but its not going in for a little while gotta have it re-geared and the new perches welded on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 While searching around for info on the JK D44 ujionts I found this article: http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticles/ ... index.html So it looks like if your willing to dish out the cash there is a proper TJ/XJ/MJ/ZJ dana 44 that is a bolt in......kinda cool, but pricey! $4300 for the front and $3300 for the rear. Too bad they are not reasonably priced...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I couldn't believe what folks are getting for these 44s! Even a set of stock TJ 44s I ran across where 3500!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I couldn't believe what folks are getting for these 44s! Even a set of stock TJ 44s I ran across where 3500!!! Ya people want stupid money for TJ D44 fronts......and they are not really worth it. Look around and you will find deals on JK Dana 44's, I got my JK dana 44 for $300, but it was missing the passenger knuckle, caliper brackets, and calipers/rotors. I'm going to have to spend a little bit for those, but I will still have less into it than I would pay most places, and could turn around and sell it for a profit if I wanted to when I was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I couldn't believe what folks are getting for these 44s! Even a set of stock TJ 44s I ran across where 3500!!! Ya people want stupid money for TJ D44 fronts......and they are not really worth it. Look around and you will find deals on JK Dana 44's, I got my JK dana 44 for $300, but it was missing the passenger knuckle, caliper brackets, and calipers/rotors. I'm going to have to spend a little bit for those, but I will still have less into it than I would pay most places, and could turn around and sell it for a profit if I wanted to when I was done. Its tough up where I live. I think there are probably a dozen JKs up here. Mall Crawlers... Totally agreed on the TJ Rubi 44. Would be a nice upgrade from just a 30 if you where planning 4.10 gears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirteatr717 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 There's probably 12 in the parking lot at my job! All of the JKs around here are driven by soccer moms, none of them wave or take the hardtop or doors off ever! I found a hp44 with 4.10s without brakes for $200 but it has the cast housing :( I'm just gunna keep looking for a set of JK axles for a decent price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroading-net Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I am doing simliar with my MJ, have a set of 3.91 varilocks off a WJ sat doing nothing (D30 front, D44 rear) The MJ is only getting 31"s so will do for me, plan to truss the rear axle & bolt through the top of the diff where the WJ ball joint usually fits. Quick question (I am miles from my MJ) will a 2wd beam axle spring mount be okay to weld up to the D30 or are they totally different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirteatr717 Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 Quick question (I am miles from my MJ) will a 2wd beam axle spring mount be okay to weld up to the D30 or are they totally different? the coil mounts are the same, I don't understand what you mean by balljoint on the WJ rear axle :nuts: lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I am doing simliar with my MJ, have a set of 3.91 varilocks off a WJ sat doing nothing (D30 front, D44 rear) The MJ is only getting 31"s so will do for me, plan to truss the rear axle & bolt through the top of the diff where the WJ ball joint usually fits. Quick question (I am miles from my MJ) will a 2wd beam axle spring mount be okay to weld up to the D30 or are they totally different? Yup, the 2WD coil buckets will be just fine to use on the front, Though I think you can make the WJ bucket setup work if memory serves(been a year since I compared the two). Depending on your axles you may or not have the CV style front yolk.....if you do then you might consider picking up the u-joint style yolk from a junkyard to make things easier for you. The WJ does not have a rear center balljoint....you may be thinking of the KJ.......but trussing that D44a rear is a good idea, once its been trussed the strength is more like that of a D60. Since you will be running 5x5" bolt pattern you might think about picking up a set of JK moabs, they would be a bolt on and be an aesthetically pleasing stock wheel to run......I'm not sure how common they are in the UK but you can find sets here in the US priced attractively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroading-net Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 The WJ does not have a rear center balljoint....you may be thinking of the KJ...... nope, WJs have an A arm on the top that bolts into the top of the diff housing. Plan is to truss the alxe across the top off the diff & bolt into the top of the diff housing as it is an ally pumpkin so welding will be difficult. I also have 3 sets of spare WJ wheels about, would love some moabs but I am sure they never made it to the UK, never seen any about at least. I do have some 18"s of a JK but getting muds in 18"s over here is impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroading-net Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Depending on your axles you may or not have the CV style front yolk.....if you do then you might consider picking up the u-joint style yolk from a junkyard to make things easier for you. Yep, all UK WJs had the CV front shaft, I have a Tom Woods UJ shaft & yokes that was on my WJ before I went to a double double cardan shaft with the 4.5" lift that I will reuse on the MJ, will need shortening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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