MJchick Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 My MJ was only supposed to need a water pump and starter when I bought it.When we changed all that we went to start it to find out the starter was not the problem. It makes a horrible grinding sound when you try to start it.We were thinking maybe the ring gear but what has us second guessing ourselves is we tried to pull start it but when we got it running it was still grinding. Anyone have any ideas what it could be if it's not the ring gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemsee Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 What tranny is in it? Does it sound like it is coming from the bellhousing area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Is the noise a grinding noise or a scraping noise? Could it be the outer ring of the harmonic damper (on the front of the crakshaft) rubbing against the timing case cover? Alternator bearings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJchick Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 The tranny is an ax15. The noise is a definate grinding.Very loud and nasty sounding.Can't even get it start with a key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJchick Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 I've also been told that something may have backed off or come loose, but the mechanic that told me that didn't show up to listen to it like he said he would so now I have to wait till my husband gets home from work, hopefully this weekend till we can look at it,since our other friend whose been helping me went back to work up north today.Unfortunately living in a small town makes good help hard to find.So I'm looking for some input here to help narrow it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Any possibility that you got the wrong starter in there? You changed the starter, correct? Do you still have the one that came out? If so, how do the teeth look? If it was grinding a lot, you should see the teeth being chewed away. If you don't have the old one, when hubby gets home (or yourself, if you do your own wrenching, but I always like a witness to call 9-1-1 when I'm working underneath) pull the new starter and look at the teeth for evidence of damage. At the same time, get a good strong light and maybe an inspection mirror and see if you can get a view of the teeth on the ring gear. If you replaced the starter, is it safe to assume that the new starter included a new solenoid with it? The 87 - 90 MJs used a starter relay AND a solenoid. Either one could be stuck. Try disconnecting the small wire from the solenoid (tape the end to avoid shots) and then try to push/pull start the vehicle. In fact, try first with BOTH wires disconnected but the starter in place. That'll help establish if you have a physical problem or an electrical problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJchick Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Sorry the one thing I forgot to mention was the motor is out of a 95 cherokee.No the teeth weren't looked at when my friend put the new starter in but that is going to be the first thing we take out so we can look at the ring gear.It's the first and easiest thought.The starter is the right starter they are identical.And it should be a good starter it's brand new.It's almost definately coming from the bell housing area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnuck Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 It could be the throw out bearing on the clutch or like my '87 BA 10/5 it could be the pilot bearing squealing. (mine makes HORRID noises on start up!) If the trans was run out of oil, it would make nasty noises too (you shoulda heard the AX-5 in my '86 when it went! WOW! And it seized while driving downhill which was even more fun!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJchick Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 The tranny in it is the ax15 which is a way better tranny then the ax5 but the tranny in it is good. As for the noise on start up it won't even start with a key.My friend tried to start it on sunday night but was a hopeless cause.It'll turn over and grind like hell but won't start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJchick Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 We've wondered about the clutch to but the clutch is brand new in november. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnuck Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Take the starter off and give it a push start (with the battery cables taped back to prevent shorts) and see if the noise went away. Has it run since the motor was changed? If not, the later HO flywheel is different than the Renix one (HO flywheel won't operate the Renix EFI system). So is the starter after '95. The CPS may have come loose or been bent during engine install. Then of course there is always the "oops I dropped a bolt. Oh well, it won't hurt!" or a missing flywheel bolt rattling around inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketwheels Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 if its still grinding when running , Id suspect the loose bolt idea , a misaligned or faulty starter not getting away from ring gear, or the throw out bearing/ pressure plate failing. Just because these items are new doesn't mean they are not faulty...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiscus Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Try starting it with the accessory belt off. I'm not sure how well/fast it's turning over right now. I'm thinking the new starter is grinding cause it can't turn the motor cause a pully is locked up. I had this just happen with a jeep & a van after they sat for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Okay, it's a '95 engine but are you still running the original electrical system? If so, there's a relay in the lay bank on the right fender that operates the starter solenoid. That relay might be stuck. Carnuck and I are (I think) on the same track -- I had in mind just disconnecting the wires from the starter to see if you could then push start it, he's suggesting removing the starter entirely. Either one would confirm that the problem lies with the starter. Mine is less work, and if the result is no grinding would strongly suggest a stuck relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiscus Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Okay, it's a '95 engine but are you still running the original electrical system? If so, there's a relay in the lay bank on the right fender that operates the starter solenoid. That relay might be stuck. Carnuck and I are (I think) on the same track -- I had in mind just disconnecting the wires from the starter to see if you could then push start it, he's suggesting removing the starter entirely. Either one would confirm that the problem lies with the starter. Mine is less work, and if the result is no grinding would strongly suggest a stuck relay. When I've had this relay go out in the past it doesn't cause any noises whatsoever. You just turn the key & "nothing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJchick Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Found the problem, the tranny was separating from the engine, only two bolts holding it together. the clutch was done the end of november, we figured that the bolts might of rattled out. or the idiots didn't put them in. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 My vote goes to the idiot. Couple of years ago I refurbished a Cherokee 4.0L automatic. It's problem turned out to be a cracked flex plate. The kid from whom I bought it couldn't diagnose that, but once I got to work it was obvious that he'd had things aprt. Two or three of the bolts holding the bell housing to the block were missing, as well as the hollow locating dowel on the starboard side. Replacing a flex plate isn't a 5-minute job, but this dweeb made the task about 3.7 times more difficult than it should have been, because I found that literally EVERYTHING he had touched I had to re-do. And he had touched a lot of things. Use blue Loctite on those bolts and you should never have a problem. Good luck with the truck -- let us know when you have it running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnuck Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 My buddy's (now mine) '82 AMC Spirit had almost all the bolts missing after driving it a couple months after a motor change. Had to rob a junkyard for the bolts he needed plus the ones I need to put an AW4 in place of the Peugeot (will have an AX-15 in there for awhile, just so I can test it in combo with the NP208J I will be selling as a pair. Probably next fall at rate things are going) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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