Wiggle, wobble, whatever!!

[ParadiseMJ]

88 MJ Pioneer 4.0, 5 spd. ~~3" lift 31x10.5...ALMOST completely rebuilt

 

In the last few months I've done:

Track bar bushing - axle side , new bolt, no rust, torqued n' tight.

New steering dampner

Extended SB links

LCA bushings - rubber

Drove it back and forth to work for a week...200 mi. All OK

 

All TRE's including drag link

Drove it back and forth to work for a week...200 mi. All OK

 

ZJ V8 tie rod with a new TRE, solid end good with new boot. Bolted right in.

Drove it back and forth to work for a week...200 mi. All OK. Great even, a more solid feeling.

 

So I took it to Les Schwab to have it aligned to finish off my work. Just to be sure.

 

Drove it back and forth to work for a week...200 mi . and then it started... wiggling at about 52 and went away at 60.

I was also pulling slightly to the right. I swapped the already balanced tires from my XJ, still wiggled...now it's more a wobble...but it is not severe...like DW...but it doesn.t go away at 60...just gets worse. Now I CAN"T drive it back and forth to work...I gotta fix this.

 

So I took it back to Les Schwab. They checked the alignment and said it was right on. They balanced the tires

again. The only thing that really CHANGED anything between all that was getting the alignment done, but they say alignment would not cause it to wobble...so they balanced the tires AGAIN!!!

 

:dunno: Now it's still wobbling. So, now what??? Any ideas :dunno:

[gaucho919]

The caster angle may be off, I have had death wobble and wiggles and the proper caster angle was always the culprit

[kyleag89]

How is your steering? I had to replace my steering gear box in two of my MJs because of the same problem your having.

[ParadiseMJ]

The caster angle may be off, I have had death wobble and wiggles and the proper caster angle was always the culprit

 

The caster as I understand it and as the dude at the tire store spent 10 minutes explaining it to me is not adjustable on a straight axle. As explained, I would need to upgrade to adjustable ball joints...not in my plan.

 

All I know is that I took it there to get aligned and everything was fine. Now it's all f++ked up.

 

...or do I not have the right understanding about caster/camber /\ ] [ \ /.

 

...the toe is perfect.

[dakal]

you can adjust caster, not camber. frame side of upper control arm. dave

[deziped]

My caster adjusts at rear of lower control arms with shims/spacers.

[carnuck]

If you lift more than 3 inches without a longer/adjustable tracbar, you will get a RH pull with the alignment done (found out the hard way. 1 $et of 255/85/16 tire$ 3 months later) I usually find the wobble is the trac bar loose on the driver's side. Put your fingers on the nut and have someone shake your Jeep side to side and see if it movbes at all (it shouldn't) You'll feel a little clunk in it like a bad tierod.

[dakal]

My caster adjusts at rear of lower control arms with shims/spacers.

 

 

you're right. i have changed my set up. now i adjust with my uppers.

[Eagle]

If the condition starts at 50 to 55 MPH and you can speed up so it goes away at about 60 MPH, the problem IS tire balance. If it's death wobble, you can't speed up -- you have to slow down to about zero before the wild and terrifying shaking stops.

[ParadiseMJ]

If the condition starts at 50 to 55 MPH and you can speed up so it goes away at about 60 MPH, the problem IS tire balance. If it's death wobble, you can't speed up -- you have to slow down to about zero before the wild and terrifying shaking stops.

 

It's not as severe as DW...which I have experienced in the XJ. It does continue past 60-65 etc. But it's not DW...not yet!!

 

If I had read this post I would also say it IS a tire balance issue...BUT...they suposedly balanced the tires 3 times. On my XJ I took it to another shop after Schwab "balanced it 3 times" and the guy said it was waaaay off. When he balanced it the wobble went away, smooth as silk. I'll be taking it to that other shop tomorrow...and actually PAYING for it to be balanced & rotated.

 

The tires themselves are in great shape, as are the wheels, shocks, bushings, ball joints and bearings.

 

So digging deeper into this I took the cotter pin out at the frame side track bar mount and could turn the nut about a quarter turn with MY FINGERS. Then I put the stubby wrench on it and was able to turn the nut at least 2 full turns, comfortably. If I really torqued on it I could have gotten at least another turn out of it. So now it's tight-er.

 

Then I get the wife to turn the wheel lock to lock a few times with my finger on the frame end. As it's coming off the turn it tries to bind and then *pops* down about 1/4". So the track bar is shot...it's probably original equipment from 1988...it sure looks like it.

 

So, new track bar tomorrow and then I'll take it to "the other shop" to balance...no more Les Schwab for me. I'll still tell folks that a slight wobble at 50-55 is a balance issue. I think I just have a the track bar issue compounding it all. Once I have the track bar in the whole suspension will be new (under 1000 mi.).

 

Thanx for the input, I'll update when I can get to a road where I can go 55 or faster.

[Exgrayxj]

:smart:

Paradise, I fought this a couple times on my xj.

First time, the hole in the bracket was wallowed out a little, so got another and track bar.

All good for about a year, then it started again. Also, it seemed to have developed some wander that hadn't been there.

Checked the bracket end of and sure enough, looseness. Tried to tighten it on the jeep, no luck.

Took bar and bracket off in one unit, couldn't loosen or tighten it, because the taper wasn't tight.

Chiseled the nut off, got another nut, pressed the taper into the bracket so it would hold tight to tighten the nut, and REALLY tightened it.

Point is, I don't think there is enough room/leverage/access with the bracket on the jeep to get the tapered joint adequately tight.

Removing the bracket is the easiest way to do the track bar change anyhoo.

 

 

Two years later, same bar, no more problems.

If it is the original, it probably needs changed, but take it apart first, check the joint . Removing the bracket was key for me.

[Eagle]

If I had read this post I would also say it IS a tire balance issue...BUT...they suposedly balanced the tires 3 times. On my XJ I took it to another shop after Schwab "balanced it 3 times" and the guy said it was waaaay off. When he balanced it the wobble went away, smooth as silk. I'll be taking it to that other shop tomorrow...and actually PAYING for it to be balanced & rotated.

I have no doubt that they actually DID [try to] balance the tires. IMHO, the new tire machines they have didn't accomplish anything other than make the users lazy. When I was in my teens and twenties, we balanced bigger tires than stock Jeep tires using nothing but a bubble balancer, and they were almost always perfect on the first try. Today, we have computerized balancers, and the tires are supposed to be made much better than they were 50 years ago -- and it's virtually unheard of (in my experience) for a set of tires to all be done right the first time -- or even the second or third time.

[alleydog]

@ years ago I put a "cheap" track bar on my son's 89 xj, thinking the jeep wasn't worth a good one. He put about 15,000 miles on that thing and it was worn out. He changed the oil himself, but never greased anything. It did the the same wobble thing as you described. So, I got another cheap one for it, I'm gonna grease the thing a little more often and see how this one does. The old one also came a little loose on the bolt end and wore the hole oblong, so I drilled the bushing and hole out to 7/16"and put in a grade 8 bolt.

[ParadiseMJ]

I have no doubt that they actually DID [try to] balance the tires. IMHO, the new tire machines they have didn't accomplish anything other than make the users lazy... When I was in my teens and twenties, we balanced bigger tires than stock Jeep tires using nothing but a bubble balancer, and they were almost always perfect on the first try. Today, we have computerized balancers, and the tires are supposed to be made much better than they were 50 years ago -- and it's virtually unheard of (in my experience) for a set of tires to all be done right the first time -- or even the second or third time.

 

I think you are right about the lazy...or at least inept. I too remember the bubble balancers too and had never had a balance problem with them. I a$$umed the the computerized balancers would be "even better", and they may be. All I know is I've had balance issues almost everytime with these guys...

 

The independent shop I go to uses both types of machines...we'll see what happens today.

[HOrnbrod]

I had a set a Goodyear GSAs early on on the MJ that would vibrate between 35-55 MPH and had them balanced at least four times, once even cutting the tread off with an old machine the supposedly "trued" the tire while spinning it at high speed. Nothing worked, I was ready to junk the tires because they were square. While having some warranty work done on the wife's Malibu, I saw they had a new Hunter Road Force balancer. Brought the MJ in and they immediately ripped off all the old weights and after thirty minutes it was smooth as glass at all speeds. Whole lot less weights too. I've done it this way ever since with zero problems.

 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=40