The dangers of off-road racing...

[beepbeepmyredjeep]

Hey guys, I know a lot of you go off-road with your MJ's, and I'd hate to see any of you get hurt, so I thought I should share this article with you all from CNN.

 

"California off-road race crash kills 8"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/08/15/califo ... hs/?hpt=T2

 

My thoughts and prayers go out to those hurt, and the families of those killed.

[shark]

i saw that this morning. 8 people dead. crazy.

[Eagle]

I was going to post about this, but you beat me to it.

 

However, this is NOT a story about the dangers of off-roading, or even the dangers of off-road racing. The driver and navigator walked away from the crash. It was idiot spectators who were killed and injured.

 

Watch the video. This was a flippin' RACE, on a course where the trucks get up to 100 MPH. And spectators were standing right next to the road/course. RIGHT next to it -- as in less than ten feet away, on both sides. Supposedly the organizers "advised" spectators to stay at least 100 feet away from the course, but human nature insists on pushing the limits, so people ignored the advice and stood practically on the course.

 

Under conditions like that, it is hardly a surprise that something happened. Racing is racing -- when competitors are going flat out, sooner or later someone goes 102 percent and crashes. I was lucky in my racing and hillclimb days. I had any number of spinouts and "off course excursions," but no crashes. My brother and another friend in our club both succeeded in demolishing their cars at hillclimbs in Vermont. Rocks and trees are not very forgiving ... they hit back.

 

I am very sorry that people were killed and injured but I have to say that the person I feel most sorry for is the driver. He had to flee the scene because people (the same people who ignored the safety advice) were throwing stones at him after he crawled out of the wreck. This was NOT his fault. The fault lies with the race organizers, who didn't make any provisions for maintaining a safe course, and the victims themselves. If you stand in front of a loaded gun when someone has his finger on the trigger, it should not be a surprise if you get shot.

 

Follow-up ... Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/us/201 ... t/#slide=1

[Comanche County]

You said it right Eagle. I can't stand watching Baja or European Rally cars because of the possibility of something like this. Its a shame what happened, its more of a shame that someone, anyone, did not prevent it.

[87Warrior]

Very well said Eagle.

 

I saw on the news tonight that some of the victims families are pushing to get more strict regulations put in place for spectators.

[jpdriver1]

absolutely correct eagle -- unfortunately we all lose, as they will most likely close the area to racing and we have darned few left out here.

 

sometime even if there are barricades, spectators get injured -- was heavy into drag racing as a late teen/early 20 something and witnessed a fellow get killed at the irvine raceway when an axle failed and sent the tire into the crowd.

[Eagle]

sometime even if there are barricades, spectators get injured -- was heavy into drag racing as a late teen/early 20 something and witnessed a fellow get killed at the irvine raceway when an axle failed and sent the tire into the crowd.

True. The fences at NASCAR tracks today are both higher and a lot stronger than they were even a few years ago. They still probably aren't 100 percent accident proof ... but they are trying.

 

Many years ago, my brother and I crewed on a modified stock car that ran at a quarter mile oval. They had guard rail around the entire track on the outside, and a chain link fence that was ten or twelve feet high. One night our guy was on the outside approaching turn one and the guy on the inside decided to go straight rather than turn left. Our guy's right front wheel hit the guardrail at just the right angle that it climbed the rail, flipped the car in a barrel roll, and sent him flying OVER the fence into the pit area. He landed on his roof in the back pit area, where (thankfully) there wasn't anybody standing because they were all up by the fence watching the race. He wasn't injured, and the car miraculously survived. It took about three weeks to bang out the sheetmetal and check out the engine, and he was back to racing. (However, the frame apparently got tweaked a little, because forever after the incident that chassis always had handling problems.)

 

So the guardrail and fence weren't enough ... but they were something. It was a freak accident. Allowing crowds of people to stand basically IN a course where vehicles will be traveling at 100 MPH is not just imprudent ... its absolutely idiotic.

[gogetemturbo]

I was at this race. My buddies and I were a mile or two away from it when it happened. I've been going to races like this for more than 8 years, and never have I seen anything like this. Luckily for my friends and I we didn't see the accident or worse be apart of it but it has still changed me.

 

I was talking with my wife later that night (who was at home with our 6 month old daughter) and she mentioned that we have stood very close to the course before and that it was stupid. I agreed but added that we don't just stand any where. I am EXTREMELY careful about where we stand. My daughter has not been with us at a race yet, but you can be d*mn sure that when she does, she will be no where near the course at all. I've done a lot of pitting for these types of vehicles and have learned that you never ever ever stand anywhere near the course after a jump, anywhere near a turn (let alone the OUTSIDE of a turn) or in really fast sections. Granted anything can happen, even in the "safest" spot but there is still some common sense that needs to be taught/learned.

 

Come to find out, another buddy of mine was out there at the race as well and I didn't know it. He and I talked Sunday night. He said earlier in the day he was literally parked where the truck came to a final rest and quickly moved aways away from it because it wasn't a safe spot to watch the race from.

 

This is a horrible tragedy that will change Off Road racing forever, hopefully only for the good.

[gogetemturbo]

If anyone would like to help the folks out that have been affected by this horrible tragedy, you can go here http://www.fast-aid.org/ to make a donation.

[Eagle]

If anyone would like to help the folks out that have been affected by this horrible tragedy, you can go here http://www.fast-aid.org/ to make a donation.

As the resident tell-it-like-it-is olde pharte, I guess I have to ask this: The mission statement of this Fast-Aid group says

 

Currently FAST Aid will extend support to injured racers, media and pit crews that are participating in sanctioned races within the borders of the United States.

 

The people who were injured and killed at this race were spectators, not drivers, media or pit crew. How does a contribution to this organization help the people who were MOST affected by this?

[gogetemturbo]

Eagle, you are absolutely right on the mission statement but if you go to the California 200 page I believe it says that the fund is going towards victims as well.

 

-- edit I just double checked and if you put in a note that you want the funds to go towards the California 200 tragedy, it will

[Eagle]

Sorry, Jake -- I guess I'm just too old and I've been burned too many times.

 

What does it mean they'll donate the funds to the California 200 tragedy? Do they even know who the victims are and how to send money to them? How do they decide which victims need the most help? More importantly (to me) ... how do we know their idea of giving "to the tragedy" doesn't mean helping the driver rebuild his truck (not that I in any way blame him, but this wouldn't help the victims), or perhaps go into the organizers' legal defense fund?

 

And I DO blame the organizers. Completely. Since posting earlier this evening I have learned that they paid a lease fee to the BLM for the use of the course. Among the terms:

 

1. No more than 350 spectators. In fact, they had well over a thousand.

 

2. Spectators to be kept at least 100 feet away from the course. We see what a swell job they did of that.

 

The organizers (to use a well-worn military expression) screwed the pooch. They don't deserve any help or sympathy. Thanks to their negligence, 8 people are dead and a dozen more seriously injured. Sorry. I believe you mean well by posting that link, but I just don't get any warm and fuzzy feelings that my donation would ever get where it should go.

[Automan2164]

Is it just me, of does their website seem a little "Fly by night" anyway... I mean, when Haiti happened, "Dontation" and "aid" websites popped up all over the place that were actually scammers... I get that vibe when crusing around that Fast aid site.

 

Rob L. :dunno:

[gogetemturbo]

I can understand your concerns regarding FAST-Aid and if I didn't know about them prior to this accident it's possible I would feel the same way. That is not the case here, they have been around for awhile and have done a wonderful job for the off road racing community. We live in this wonderful Country, we are allowed to think for ourselves so I don't expect to change your minds. I only wanted to make sure people knew there was a place to go should they want to help. There are many other places and ways that people can help as well, I merely posted the one I chose.

 

While I agree that the sanctioning body of the race must take some responsibility for the accident, I don't believe they are to blame. The spectators must take some as well. People don't go and stand right next to the highways and freeways trying to touch cars and get close to the action and they should have the common sense to not do the same at any racing event.

 

We go to these races for the excitement of the trucks and buggies that are competing. It's all to easy to covet these incredible machines because they are so awe inspiring and incredible. People need to remember that the things that draw us towards these vehicles and spark the excitement can also turn deadly. As with any extreme sport, they dance along a very fine line and things can go bad, quickly. I am in no way saying that MDR doesn't need to step up pre-cautionary measures to assist in preventing this but in the end, the spectators do what they want. People jump fences all the time, riots happen all the time despite a security presence, things go wrong.

 

I believe the biggest thing that will help this not happen again is awareness. Awareness for the sanctioning bodies of the races, awareness to the drivers and pit crews as well as awareness for the thousands of spectators that go to these events.

 

On a small tangent, it was mentioned that BLM put in the 15mph rule and the amount of spectators at the event. The race wouldn't be much of a race if they dropped to 15mph every time there was a group of people nearby, people spread out all over the place on these courses. I believe this is just a cop-out on BLMs part. It seems technically the driver's and MDR did not comply, though I have not read the permit so I don't know the exacts on this rule, so the government did it's thing and got the blame off of itself. As far as the amount of spectators, there is no way to know how many people will be at any given event. I've been to races that in previous years, it was absolutely massive. But the next...you could hear the crickets chirping a mile away. One must remember that this is open desert. Goverment BLM land that is open to every red blooded American (and then some!) that wishes to be there what ever the reason is. It's not short course racing like CORR and the Lucas Oil Off Road Racing Series that can be fenced off and everyone can sit in bandstands to watch after paying to get in. It's a different animal and needs to be treated differently.

[gogetemturbo]

It seems I didn't address all of your comments in my post, I guess I went on a bigger tangent than I thought. :doh:

 

Though you've no real reason to believe me (since you really don't know me from Adam), I can say that the money will for sure go to the victims and family of the victims of the accident. I can say this because of my previous knowledge and experiance of FAST-Aid. They will not help a driver's rebuild of his vehicle, only to help them with what they and their family needs to survive. The same will go for the victims and their families. MDR has it's own insurance policy that it will have to use.

 

How does the Red Cross know who needs help? How does any other non-profit public service organization know who needs help? They do the research, talk to the right people and get the facts. I am not apart of their organization so I do not know the exacts on how they determine who gets what but I know they do a fair job of it.

 

 

I want to make sure that you know that I am in no way discrediting you or what you believe, merely stating what I know and what I believe. The greatest thing about this Country is that we can be our own person and speak freely with all that we are.

[Eagle]

I'm afraid I remain skeptical. I saw at least three different pages on their web site where they explained in excruciating detail that the IRS can take up to 27 months to approve status as a non-for-profit. They have been in exisyence for just over a year. This tells me that they have not yet received IRS approval as a non-for-profit.

 

Yet they say all donations are tax deductible. If they have not yet been approved by the IRS as a not-for-profit, I don't think that statement is correct. Having been on the board of directors for several non-for-profits, and having been involved in the creation of one, it is my understanding that donations to an organization are NOT tax deductible until the IRS issues a determination that the organization is a not-for-profit.

[gogetemturbo]

It seems you know quite a bit more about the non-profit system than I, all I can draw from is my experiance with FAST-Aid and what I have seen them do for off road racing.

 

Each person who wants to help can make their decisions based off of what they know and what they learn. I just wanted to share one of the ways they can do that. Multiple people have set up donation funds for specific people that were affected by this accident and I didn't feel comfortable giving to only one person, not knowing how that money would be used. I don't have much to give and preffered to give it to a group I know would spread it out.

 

I was thinking about ways that the race organizations may be able to make these races safer for spectators. Due to the scale of the events, typically there is no 1 single entrance to funnel everyone through and give them literature or make them sign something. It would be nearly impossible to fence off the entire course so really all they can do is fence off the popular and "extreme" areas. I think that people will still go past the fences to get close to the action, but at least then it will be painfully obvious that they are not supposed to be there.

 

Any thoughts or ideas on other ways they could make it safer without turning it into a short course race like CORR or Lucas Oil Series?

[dakal]

about the race. group b rally in europe killed a bunch of people and they banned the cars. same problem with the people being too close to the cars.

 

if you act stupid and get killed doing something, why blame the racers. they were following the rules. it happens in baja too. iv'e seen people reach out to touch the trucks when they are going by. they are going 60 + mph.

 

i feel for the families of the victims.

 

now another place will be off limits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

COMMAN SENSE rules the day.

[kastein]

iv'e seen people reach out to touch the trucks when they are going by. they are going 60 + mph.

idiots... I hope they enjoy those broken fingers.