So Just For Clarification (Flywheel Question)

[kro10000]

So I was the dumb guy that decided to resurface his flywheel (cause when you can fix something that isnt broken, why not? Right?) I was them promptly told that that was a bad move, and that the flywheel was concave FOR A REASON...

I decided I wasnt gonna see what would happen, and ordered a new flywheel... (Sachs brand from O'Reilly's)

Just prior to installation, my buddy has a hard time believing that Jeep flywheels are concave, so he picks up a straightedge to show me... AND HE WAS RIGHT (on this one anyway) However, I was done messing around, and decided that if this product couldn't possibly work it wouldnt be sold :dunce:, so I put it in and got everything back together

 

That was about a month ago.... So Fast Forward to today

 

I have no DD, the Mustang decided to completely annihilate its own valve seals to the extent of me being the sole contributor of smog in the midwest.

 

I have spent countless hours bleeding this clutch, but am getting very little disengagement :headpop:, I even replaced the crappy rubber clutch hose with a steel line.

 

So to get down to the point, could this FLAT flywheel possibly be causing my :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: ?

If so, where do I find a good Jeep Flywheel, (and please please please don't send me to a dealership, I simply cannot afford to pay their rediculous prices.... I understand marketing expenses, but jeez how much does a MOPAR logo really cost?)

 

:help:

[-600JeepMJ]

I have never heard of any flywheel being concave. :dunno: Every clutch change I have done we have checked the flywheel with a straightedge to make sure it was not warped. (VW,ford, Chevy, jeep) All of them were flat. :thumbsup: ..... so did you change the clutch slave cylinder out too? :hmm:

[Eagle]

I have never heard of any flywheel being concave. :dunno: Every clutch change I have done we have checked the flywheel with a straightedge to make sure it was not warped. (VW,ford, Chevy, jeep) All of them were flat. :thumbsup: ..... so did you change the clutch slave cylinder out too? :hmm:

The Jeep FSM specifically advises NOT to resurface the flywheels because they have a "proprietary contour." (Whatever that means)

 

Every single person I have heard of who has had an XJ or MJ flywheel resurfaced has had clutch problems afterwards.

[kro10000]

Right, so I bought a new one, but this one is flat, thats what I have in there now

 

 

The reason I did the clutch job in the first place is because I suspected a bad slave cylinder. So I have now replaced the master, slave, line, disk, pressure plate, and flywheel in the MJ. I cannot engage any gear if I start in neutral and the engine is running. I can start in first but the clutch is still grabbing some with the pedal depressed. My pedal is WAY firmer than before the slave completely gave up the ghost. I have been bleeding this forever, trying all sorts of different methods, so I really don't think air in the line is the problem, unless it could be either a bad new master, slave, or that short piece of line going into the slave.

[kro10000]

bump

[Oizarod115]

sorry eagle, i respect you and the FSM but i gotta say i think...

 

its B.S. I'm convinced of it. the flywheel that came OUT of my truck was PERFECTLY FLAT verified by the machine-quality straightedge we use on heads.

 

the one that came OUT of another jeep (actually petes 2wd GA truck) was PERFECTLY FLAT. it then got RESURFACED. and put back into my truck.

 

guess what,

my old clutch was perfectly smooth (even getting ABUSED by a dumb teenager that didn't know how to drive (me)) and my new clutch is perfectly smooth.

 

i don't beleive it.

[Oizarod115]

and the flywheel being flat or not wouldn't change the clutch bleeding or it engaging or not. you've got something else going on.

 

it IS possible to get bad parts new in the box. hope you get it figured out.

[kro10000]

Well just prior to turning the flywheel, we brought the cutting bit down to the flywheel, and it definitely WAS NOT FLAT, the outside edge was higher, and it tapered inward, so I am confused

[Oizarod115]

Well just prior to turning the flywheel, we brought the cutting bit down to the flywheel, and it definitely WAS NOT FLAT, the outside edge was higher, and it tapered inward, so I am confused

not saying they didnt ever have a contour, just saying they will work without it.

[Eagle]

I'm only reporting what friends in NAXJA have told me. When I repleced the clutch in my '88 XJ, I did it at 204,000 miles because the slave cylinder let go and it didn't make sense not to do the whole job. But the old clutch didn't look any more worn than the new one so I didn't touch the flywheel. Thus, I have no first-hand experience in the matter, but between the FSM and what others have gone through, when I do the clutch in the '87 MJ this month ... I have a new flywheel in the box waiting to be installed.

[Oizarod115]

I'm only reporting what friends in NAXJA have told me. When I repleced the clutch in my '88 XJ, I did it at 204,000 miles because the slace cylinder let go and it didn't make sense not to do the whole job. But the old clutch didn't look any more worn than the new one so I didn't touch the flywheel. Thus, I have no first-hand experience in the matter, but between the FSM and what others have gone through, when I do the clutch in the '87 MJ this month ... I have a new flywheel in the box waiting to be installed.

where did you buy the flywheel and what clutch kit did you use and is the clutch kit convex to match the concave flywheel?

(not for the sake of argument, i just want to know)

[kro10000]

where did you buy the flywheel and what clutch kit did you use and is the clutch kit convex to match the concave flywheel?(not for the sake of argument, i just want to know)

 

Well since I work at O'Reilly's I bought everything from there. My flywheel was a Sachs brand, and my clutch kit was Dynapak (although we just did a relabel, so the Dynapaks will be sold until we are out of stock, then we will be selling Sachs brand clutch kits)

 

Strangely enough, my clutch disk was worn more on the inside :???: But it appears to be flat...

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I heard that the BA-10 flywheel was concave, and the AX-15 was flat, but I have since been told otherwise, and I believe the part numbers at O'Reillys for the older XJ/MJ flywheels are the same as the newer ones.

 

I digress, so you guys think the flywheel couldn't possibly be causing my clutch engagement woes? I am seriously considering dropping the transmission again tomorrow to inspect everything.

[Eagle]

where did you buy the flywheel and what clutch kit did you use and is the clutch kit convex to match the concave flywheel?

I bought everything from my local Jeep dealer. I haven't taken the flywheel out of the box, so I have no idea if it's flat or contoured.

 

When the original slave went on the '88, I discussed the replacement with my friend who is a retired Jeep master mechanic and service manager. He pointed out that the original parts had lasted 12 years and 204,000 miles, so why would I want to risk using something else? That made good sense to me then, and it still does today. People still complain about new clutch master and slave cylinders that go bad after 6 months. The "new" one I put in the '88 XJ now has 83,000 miles on it and it has been in for 10 years. I think my friend's advice was solid.

[Oizarod115]

KRO1000

there is something else wrong with your truck causing the engagement/disengagement issue. if the flywheel was the problem it would most likely show up as a shudder upon release or a grabby clutch or something else driveability related.

bottom line your clutch WILL WORK (at least well enough to get you down the road) with a flat flywheel. so there's something else going on.

 

if you can find a curved flywheel be sure to let us know where you bought it.

 

eagle:

would you mind takin stuff out of boxes to verify cause if the correct parts are out there i'll quit doubting and go buy them, but i know the clutch master cylinder for my truck is *obsolete* i couldn't buy it at the dealer so i doubt they carry any of the other stuff to go with it anymore.

[gl1200aman]

Just curious, is it possible that you have mixed parts? Maybe a you installed some flat parts with some concave parts? If the flywheel and pressure plate are flat and the clutch disk is concave when you apply the clutch it does not completely disengage because the disk returns to concave and contacts the flywheel or pressure plate.

 

Another thought is whether the clutch disk was flipped when installed. Maybe the flywheel side of the clutch disk is facing the pressure plate.

 

It may be a huge hassle but it may be the best solution to pull it apart and double check everything.

[kro10000]

I am 99% positive the disk is facing the correct direction, I checked it, checked it again, and a third time...

I do not believe that is the problem, as the problem I have now is the same one I had before, only a little worse...

The only piece I haven't replaced in this entire clutch hydraulic system is the small line that runs into the bellhousing into the slave.

It was a little rusty, but I couldn't find a replacement for it in time so I ran it (why the slave didnt come with a new one I will never know. So I am considering a one last shot at bleeding the syetem, and if that fails I am just going to tear the whole thing apart

 

 

Anyone relatively close to my area have a external slave bellhousing (and misc parts) that they are wanting to get rid of?

[Grant]

I too am in the middle of a clutch replacement. My flywheel was perfectly flat all the way across, except for the 1/8 scores from the old clutch. I had it resurfaced. They grounds it, not a lathe.

 

My clutch problem seemed to be the exact oposite. without any pedel pressure it acted like the clutch pedel was depressed. when actually depressed you could hear a ticking sound like the pp fingers or the disc springs touching something. I have the external slave and I did an all steel line to it. both the clutch master and slave were new last year. 15k miles max. the only difiernce is the flywheel on this motor an 89 vs the flywheel from the origional 86 motor. they were exactly the same so I did not swap them.

anybody had this problem? I'm installing the complete clutch kit this evening.

[Comanche County]

I purposefully resurfaced mine knowing the manual recommended against it. It was severely scorched from a previous clutch install and had a bad shudder on disengagement. The shaking was due mainly to a worn pilot bushing and party to worn bearings on the input shaft of the AX15. This was at 207K.

 

When I pulled the clutch a second time, I decided to resurface it due to the scorching and I replaced the pilot bushing and threw the old clutch and pressure plate back in. Now it engages and disengages like a dream. Occasionally there's a little shake but that's due to the input shaft bearings. Since resurfacing the flywheel I haven't had a problem at all. I've driven it at least 6-7K since. I have a brand new clutch kit left over but I'm waiting to find an externally slaved bell housing and bearing retainer, then I'll have the AX15 rebuilt and slap it all in together.

 

I'd say if its there's no obvious damage, gouges or scorching there's no need to resurface. Maybe just some light hand sanding with fine sandpaper. But when I think about it, it shouldn't hurt to resurface it either. The pressure plate is flat, both sides of the clutch are flat, shouldn't they matte to another flat surface? :dunno: