rokcrwler Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Not sure if this is where it should be but... I'm in need of some help guys.. I'm having a problem keeping a front driveshaft in my XJ. So, what are you guys running on yours? I'm asking for input from 10" lift + and 37" tires + guys.. I'm running 38's, D60's, 3-link triangulated, SBC, th350, and an Atlas. Distance between yokes is only 28". Static angle is 31* and drops to 65*, I need about 6" of slip.. I have tried 3 companies DS's and .. Sooo, what do you think?? TIA -drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 if you haven't checked already, make sure the ears on the yoke aren't worn off. i had a problem a long time ago like this, and didn't know to look at the yoke. if the little tabs worn off it won't stay in. happens all the time actually just my first thought, i'm sure you covered it already though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 They were new yokes for every DS. I need a very HIGH ANGLE set up.. Ujoints were 1310's, 1350's, and offset 1350's. still broke em.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Whose driveshafts have you broken so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I would prefer not to say.. I have talked to Tom Woods and at the time, nothing. (I do have a rear ds from him) I've looked into the BadBoy and BadBoy Jr.. Wasnt sure if it would hold when I talked to them. At this point I have about $1200 into ds's/yokes and don't want to "test" anymore just to hope it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I know I've seen ads in the 4x4 mags for high angel super strong driveshafts. Can't recall the names though. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Ya I have called a few (can't remember names either) Some of them are pretty $$$. I may try pushing the front axle forward 4" maybe 5" and see if that helps.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Am I to assume you are trying to run a CV? Why do you need 6" of slip? (sounds excessive). Stock CVs are not capable of an angle mush more than about 36 degrees. Sounds like you need to run with no CV and use some larger joints (1330 for more angle or even larger). BTW, I am in the same boat and have't come to a conclusion (yet). I am at 8" and 36s. I am heading over to the driveline shop in a few minutes for suggestions. I am running a Klune and a 231 so I need to work over the front crossmember as well. Another user here has a cool short shaft that he uses but with my TC clocked flat, the angle is at about 36 degrees static. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 The reason of the slip (3"in, 3"out, 6" total) is the angle even with the long arms. The tcase is really close to the yoke on the axle, lots of travel, so it needs the slip. The main prob I think is the 350/350 combo. Shorter motor, shorter tranny, and a Dana 60. Brings it all close for the height. I have even tried lowering the front just to get it to work. Like 5"s.. Both u joints, upper and lower, have broke because I havent found high enough angle yokes or "cv's". They bind and break. I called the Driveshaft Superstore and I may try the BadBoy 80* and give that a whirl.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Are there any clocking rings for your tranny/t-case combo? If you can angle the T-case drop a degree or two it might help. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 yup its clocked as far as itll go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPB Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 I am assuming that you have manual hubs? If so, why not just build a square tube driveline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 square tubes for the slip, maybe. but what about the u joints and yokes... the problem areas. thanks though :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 High or low pinion D60? Do you NEED a double cardan driveshaft? I think Cornays offer more angle than a regular Spicer style double cardan joint. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The reason of the slip (3"in, 3"out, 6" total) is the angle even with the long arms. The tcase is really close to the yoke on the axle, lots of travel, so it needs the slip. The main prob I think is the 350/350 combo. Shorter motor, shorter tranny, and a Dana 60. Brings it all close for the height. I have even tried lowering the front just to get it to work. Like 5"s.. Both u joints, upper and lower, have broke because I havent found high enough angle yokes or "cv's". They bind and break. I called the Driveshaft Superstore and I may try the BadBoy 80* and give that a whirl.. I still cannot figure out your reason for the excessive slip. I suspect your math is improper. Long arms match (closer) the length of the driveline and when articulated, run parallel with the control arms. If you run radius arms, your situation gets better as the pinion angle goes in line with the control angles during articulation. When this is so your driveline does not seem to compress as much as it does with a short arm setup. Is the length of your control arms the same as your driveline? I did some 'basic' math and I can't see how you would need more 4.3" with 16" of travel :dunno: Back to your issue, I said I was in a similar boat. We came up with a possible solution to my issue yesterday while at the driveline shop. It is a $180 gamble but I beleive it may work now let me see if I can describe it. After following how Willy (reson46) dealt with a doubler (and to avoid the crossmember), he came up with the idea of using a short shaft and a carrier bearing coming off of the TC. (great idea BTW) Willy’s idea was pretty good as I first looked at it but it doesn't apply to me. With my Klune and my 231 clocked flat, one has to run the short shaft perfectly inline with the yolk on the TC to prevent any vibes. This placed my carrier bearing about 4" higher than the cross member and with the limited travel of a CV, this would not work for me. (I run a LP D44 front axle) After spending some time at the drive line shop yesterday, we decided to run a CV at the transfer case yolk and angle the drive line down to a carrier bearing mounted at the cross member (about 13" on my vehicle). Similar to Willy’s set-up, I will have a NON-CV yolk attached on the other side of the carrier bearing (and the carrier bearing will be mounted at a slight angle on the cross member). This then will place the ‘short shaft’ yolk facing downwards towards the front axle yolk. From here I will have another telescoping shaft with just a U-Joint at each end of which I will have one spare. I was considering using 1330 joints for this to allow for more angle. Forgive me if this does not make sense. I will post up pics in a few weeks to explain this better. Will this work? The driveline shop seems to think so but time will tell. Will this work for you? Dunno. I was hoping something like this could help you get the angles you need. I am hoping this will get me the 50+ degrees I am needing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Willy’s idea was pretty good as I first looked at it but it doesn't apply to me. With my Klune and my 231 clocked flat, one has to run the short shaft perfectly inline with the yolk on the TC to prevent any vibes. This placed my carrier bearing about 4" higher than the cross member and with the limited travel of a CV, this would not work for me. (I run a LP D44 front axle) Are you running drive flanges on your D44? Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Willy’s idea was pretty good as I first looked at it but it doesn't apply to me. With my Klune and my 231 clocked flat, one has to run the short shaft perfectly inline with the yolk on the TC to prevent any vibes. This placed my carrier bearing about 4" higher than the cross member and with the limited travel of a CV, this would not work for me. (I run a LP D44 front axle) Are you running drive flanges on your D44? Willy Nope. The front end is not spinning on the street. Keep in mind I have about 7.5-8" of lift too so the 'drop' is pretty significant. My TC is clocked so flat we rebuilt the floor to rotate it up so it wouldn't hang below the frame rails. When I mocked up the setup like yours, the CV was maxxed out when the MJ was sitting flat. If I flexed at all it would have exploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Willy’s idea was pretty good as I first looked at it but it doesn't apply to me. With my Klune and my 231 clocked flat, one has to run the short shaft perfectly inline with the yolk on the TC to prevent any vibes. This placed my carrier bearing about 4" higher than the cross member and with the limited travel of a CV, this would not work for me. (I run a LP D44 front axle) Are you running drive flanges on your D44? Willy Nope. The front end is not spinning on the street. Keep in mind I have about 7.5-8" of lift too so the 'drop' is pretty significant. My TC is clocked so flat we rebuilt the floor to rotate it up so it wouldn't hang below the frame rails. When I mocked up the setup like yours, the CV was maxxed out when the MJ was sitting flat. If I flexed at all it would have exploded. Do you do much high speed wheeling? I'm just trying to understand why the short shaft couldn't be angled down a little bit. I know it would lead to vibrations, but if the shaft is only turning during low speed wheeling maybe it isn't something to be concerned about. :hmm: Is a non-double cardan shaft an option for you? Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Willy’s idea was pretty good as I first looked at it but it doesn't apply to me. With my Klune and my 231 clocked flat, one has to run the short shaft perfectly inline with the yolk on the TC to prevent any vibes. This placed my carrier bearing about 4" higher than the cross member and with the limited travel of a CV, this would not work for me. (I run a LP D44 front axle) Are you running drive flanges on your D44? Willy Nope. The front end is not spinning on the street. Keep in mind I have about 7.5-8" of lift too so the 'drop' is pretty significant. My TC is clocked so flat we rebuilt the floor to rotate it up so it wouldn't hang below the frame rails. When I mocked up the setup like yours, the CV was maxxed out when the MJ was sitting flat. If I flexed at all it would have exploded. Do you do much high speed wheeling? I'm just trying to understand why the short shaft couldn't be angled down a little bit. I know it would lead to vibrations, but if the shaft is only turning during low speed wheeling maybe it isn't something to be concerned about. :hmm: Is a non-double cardan shaft an option for you? Willy Double cardon is an option but I will be running it at the transfer case yolk. To the axle, a double cardon does not have enough available angle to go the range I need. I am modifying your great idea. I should have a picture to be able to post on Friday but it ill be a two piece like yours. Hopefuly it will work out :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Not sure if this is where it should be but... I'm in need of some help guys.. I'm having a problem keeping a front driveshaft in my XJ. So, what are you guys running on yours? I'm asking for input from 10" lift + and 37" tires + guys.. I'm running 38's, D60's, 3-link triangulated, SBC, th350, and an Atlas. Distance between yokes is only 28". Static angle is 31* and drops to 65*, I need about 6" of slip.. I have tried 3 companies DS's and .. Sooo, what do you think?? TIA -drew Can you get us any pictures of your setup? :brows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokcrwler Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have tried a non cv. and I have tried the 2 piece with carrier bearing, twice.. no good.. couple pics.. no front shaft to show the angle, but you kinda get it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have tried a non cv. and I have tried the 2 piece with carrier bearing, twice.. no good..couple pics.. no front shaft to show the angle, but you kinda get it.. I am guessing a big part of your problems are related to your suspension design. From these pics it looks like your upper arms are close to half the length of your lower arms. This is going to greatly rotate your pinion down as the suspension droops which will probably result in binding pretty quickly. I think you are going to need to redesign your suspension, lengthen your upper arms, and move there body side mounting points further back. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reson46 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Double cardon is an option but I will be running it at the transfer case yolk. To the axle, a double cardon does not have enough available angle to go the range I need. I am modifying your great idea. I should have a picture to be able to post on Friday but it ill be a two piece like yours. Hopefuly it will work out :) OK, I think I got confused somewhere along the line. For some reason I thought you were going to run a double cardan shaft to the axle. I was going to suggest a non-double cardan shaft, but you are already doing that. :dunce: I'm still not sure why you couldn't have a little bit of an angle on the short shaft if it is only going to be turning at low speeds. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I have tried a non cv. and I have tried the 2 piece with carrier bearing, twice.. no good..couple pics.. no front shaft to show the angle, but you kinda get it.. I am guessing a big part of your problems are related to your suspension design. From these pics it looks like your upper arms are close to half the length of your lower arms. This is going to greatly rotate your pinion down as the suspension droops which will probably result in binding pretty quickly. I think you are going to need to redesign your suspension, lengthen your upper arms, and move there body side mounting points further back. Willy X2 The pinion rotates a LOT when the control arms are off in length a lot like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Double cardon is an option but I will be running it at the transfer case yolk. To the axle, a double cardon does not have enough available angle to go the range I need. I am modifying your great idea. I should have a picture to be able to post on Friday but it ill be a two piece like yours. Hopefuly it will work out :) OK, I think I got confused somewhere along the line. For some reason I thought you were going to run a double cardan shaft to the axle. I was going to suggest a non-double cardan shaft, but you are already doing that. :dunce: I'm still not sure why you couldn't have a little bit of an angle on the short shaft if it is only going to be turning at low speeds. Willy Yeah. I was worried I mis-explained that :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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