Best way to re-gear?

[summerinmaine]

Based on the advise from the "minimalist stroker" thread, I'm considering a re-gear instead. I have D30/D44 axles, and 3.07 ratios. I want to go 4.10 (though some call them 4.09 and others 4.11).

 

Should I look for used gearsets? The prices I've seen for new are ~$250/axle, so unless used are quite a bit cheaper, it doesn't seem to make sense.

 

Should I look to swap axles? D30s appear relatively available, D44s not so much. Can I use a D30 off of an XJ or any other model Jeep? Should I consider swapping a different axle for the D30? I'm assuming that the D44 is well worth keeping.

 

If I re-gear instead of swapping an axle, what should I expect to pay to have the gears set properly?

 

Keep in mind that out here in the LLC, used MJ parts are not easily found, and tend to be pricey. XJ are more readily available, but still pricey for some reason.

[Motion Offroad]

Having the D44 makes the re-gear process worth the $$ (in our opinion). Your not going to find another set of axle's with 4.10's in them that will be as good as your d30/d44 combo you currently have.

 

If you find a D44 setup for a MJ with 4.10's in it than go buy a lottery ticket cause it was your lucky day. They just are very very rare.

 

We sell Alloy USA gear sets for under $200/set. So figure $400 in gears, than another $150 for master install kits (kits consist of bearings/sleaves/shims).

 

Install is going to vary greatly on location and if you can find someone who knows how to do it. A shop will most likely charge you more than just a local guy doing it. I'd recommend trying to find a local Jeep club and see if anyone in that Club is experienced setting up gears. Typically guys will do it for cheap so they can buy new Jeep parts themselves. Plus this lets you "watch" and you'll learn something as well.

[Pete M]

With the front axle it is possible to get a junkyard axle with 4.10s already in them. All depends on the circumstances. I would look for a non-CAD XJ Dana 30 with the bigger 297 axle shaft U-joints. Or, barring that, a TJ front axle with 4.10s (All TJs have the bigger joints). The TJ axle will be a low-pinion axle, but you don't have enough lift to really worry about that. Then go ahead and re-gear your Dana 44.

But if you can't find one with the bigger U-joints, those can be added in later, so really any 4.10 XJ/MJ/TJ Dana 30 would do. car-part.com may be of help in finding one or at least checking out local junkyard prices.

 

When getting new gears installed, make sure you get a good warranty on the work. If set up wrong, they can burn out quickly.

[HOrnbrod]

If you decide to regear your D44, the best prices for new gears and the master kit by far I found when I did it on my D35 was from Dirk at http://www.dpgoffroad.com (316-776-9900), $210 for both including shipping. A real gentleman to work with. The first set I went from 3.55 to 4.11 (Yukon), tried to install myself, and flocked up the backlash adj. which caused driveline vibes. The second set I carried to a known good local shop w. a rock solid guarantee and am going strong two years later. And yes, 4.11 gears front and back should be the ideal solution for your needs.

[Eagle]

Used gears are almost always noisy, because you can't match the original mesh pattern. I would suggest regearing the D44 in the rear, and buying a D30 from a 4-banger XJ for the front. Since you'll need to change the carrier in the rea, this might also be the time to consider a few extra bucks to install a limited slip. The factory-option Trac-Loc is the least expensive, but IMHO a TrueTrac is a better unit for the type of use I think you'll be encountering. No clutches to wear, and no friction modifier required.

 

And I agree with the recommendation to check prices with Dirk.

[Geonovast]

so really any 4.10 XJ/MJ/TJ Dana 30 would do.

 

Shouldn't that be XJ/MJ/TJ/ZJ?

[Pete M]

Did they ever come with 4.10 gears?

[Geonovast]

I'm sure it wasn't common, but entirely possible that someone ordered it that way, or someone already had one re-geared. I just wanted to clarify that the axle would physically be bolted in.

[CWLONGSHOT]

so really any 4.10 XJ/MJ/TJ Dana 30 would do.

 

Shouldn't that be XJ/MJ/TJ/ZJ?

 

Just FYI...

The TJ and ZJ are LO-Pinion D30's. YES they will still work, and bolt right it. But if your lifted the HI-Pinion offers a bit better angle, not to mention its also stronger.

 

As for the rear, I recommend you bite the bullet and go for the Spiecer gear set. The are better quality and you can buy one with the identical offsets to what you have with the 3:07's. (Pull yous and note the numbers. Order the new ratio with these same numbers.)This can GREATLY shorten the setup time. As many times the same shim packs will prove to be spot on first time. At the very least, you will have better gears that will be closer to "on" with your existing shims. This equates to shorter/easier set-up. this is a HUGE thing for the shade tree mechanic!!

 

Good Luck,

CW

 

CW

[BLHTAZ]

All great advise here from my experience so I have nothing much to add other than the reinforcement of DON'T get used gears if you do a swap. As Eagle said...they will likely be noisy and are much more inclined to fail in a much shorter time.

[HOrnbrod]

Since summerinmaine is contemplating regearing his D44 from 3.07 to 4.10, won't he also need a new carrier since the low-to-high ratio cutoff is 3.73?

 

EDIT: Crap, I just saw Eagle's post above regarding the new carrier - never mind..........

[reson46]

The TJ and ZJ are LO-Pinion D30's. YES they will still work, and bolt right it. But if your lifted the HI-Pinion offers a bit better angle, not to mention its also stronger.

 

In my opinion, swapping in a low pinion D30 is definitely not worth it, whether you are lifted or not. It is taking a step back in strength. High pinion, non CAD D30s with 4.10 gears are not rare, so it shouldn't be too hard to find one.

 

If I were you I would check out Car-Part.com for '97 to '99 XJs with 4.10 gears for the front axle. Some time in '96 they started using the larger 297x u-joints and I think it was some time in '00 they went to low pinion D30s in the XJs (the change over may have been some time '01, I don't remember for sure). This will give you three benefits over your current axle - eliminate the CAD, larger 297x axle shaft u-joints, and 4.10 gears. It will bolt up and then all you need to do is regear the rear axle.

 

Willy

[summerinmaine]

Okay, so here's what I've distilled so far (and thanks for ALL the great advice):

 

Front: Best bet seems to be reson46's suggestion, a "'97 to '99 XJ D30 with 4.10 gears for the front axle." Without the CAD I might lose a bit of fuel economy, but the improvements (high pinion, 297x U-joints) sound like they're worth it. Of course, the LLC is not as rich in Jeep yards, or parts, so availability will be a factor. Fallback would be to rebuild what I've got.

 

Rear: Re-gear the D44. I'll need a fresh gearset with identical offsets (I'm convinced that used doesn't make sense), a new carrier, a master rebuild kit and, if I want to get fancy, a True-Trac LSD. I'm not sure I'd try to do the re-build myself (sounds do-able, but the consequences of doing it wrong would be substantial). Obviously more expensive than a gearset/rebuild kit, so I'll price an LSD to see what this will add to the package.

 

Have I missed anything?

 

Also, I suppose I could do this in two stages, if I rebuilt the D44 and then just didn't use 4WD until I handled the front. Next major Baja trip is mid-November.

[Geonovast]

There's no need to restrict yourself to a 97 - 99 D30. ALL XJ/MJ D30s are High Pinion, and the non-CAD axles were available through most of the years(if not all), just only with Select-Trac in the earlier years.

 

If you can't get ahold of a non-CAD, there's really nothing wrong with the disco ones. You haven't broken the one you have now, right? Unless you're going to be doing a decent amount of wheeling, you shouldn't fret over it. And since you use it as a camper truck, you'd probably better off with a disco to squeeze whatever you can out of that $3.85 a gallon you dumped into it.

[Pete M]

Or you could hunt down and build up a front axle, then swap it in at the same time you get the rear done the rear. Depends on how valuable 4wd is to you I guess. Also, a lot of shops will offer a discount on the gear-swap work if you can bring in the axle separate from the Jeep, rather than occupying a money-making bay with your truck. Plus the work is easier on a bench than under a truck.

[Eagle]

There's no need to restrict yourself to a 97 - 99 D30. ALL XJ/MJ D30s are High Pinion, and the non-CAD axles were available through most of the years(if not all), just only with Select-Trac in the earlier years.

No, Chrysler changed the XJ in mid-year 99 to use a low-pinion D30 in the front. That's why CW said to look for a 97 thru 99 -- it'll have the larger u-joints but still be a high pinion. XJ D30s from previous years with Selec-Trac will be free of the disconnect, but will have the smaller u-joints. However, since Selec-Trac wasn't offered with the 4-cylinder engine, it's unlikely to find one that has 4.10 gears without the disconnect earlier than 91 or 92 -- whatever year Chrysler simply stopped using the disconnect on the XJ.

[Pete M]

I thought I read somewhere that 92+ XJs with ABS had the bigger joints.

[Eagle]

I thought I read somewhere that 92+ XJs with ABS had the bigger joints.

Now that you mention it, I believe you are correct. I have read that, but I've never encountered one (that I know of) from that vintage with ABS so I haven't verified or refuted it.

[summerinmaine]

Someone is offering me a Spicer/Dana open carrier for the D44. Would this be compatible with the True-Trac LSD?

 

Thanks.

 

Of course, I just looked at the price of a True-Trac, and it's over $400. :eek:

 

That would double the cost of my D44 re-gear ($180 gearset, $35 carrier, $75 master rebuild, $150 labor). Maybe I don't need LSD after-all. :brows:

[CWLONGSHOT]

Someone is offering me a Spicer/Dana open carrier for the D44. Would this be compatible with the True-Trac LSD?

 

Thanks.

 

Of course, I just looked at the price of a True-Trac, and it's over $400. :eek:

 

That would double the cost of my D44 re-gear ($180 gearset, $35 carrier, $75 master rebuild, $150 labor). Maybe I don't need LSD after-all. :brows:

 

No not at all.. Open is open, your arse stuck in a ditch with one rear wheel spinning, wishing you spent the extra coin. :D :roll:

 

A Tru-Track is a good aggressive gear driven Limited slip differential. How aggressive.. I was on a run where a guy broke a shaft with one!

 

Only you know if you can awing it, but the little more now will pay dividends the day your stuck.

 

CW

[Eagle]

Also, a True Trac IS a carrier, so you don't need an open carrier if you're going that route.

 

Last I knew, a True Trac was in the $350 to $370 range. For about $100 less you can get a Dana Trac-Lok, which is the same clutch-type limited slip the factory used. Not as aggressive as a True Trac and requires friction modifier in the gear oil, but still better than an open axle. The Trac-Lok is also a complete carrier, so again you would not need an open carrier if you buy it.

[summerinmaine]

Also, a True Trac IS a carrier, so you don't need an open carrier if you're going that route.

 

Last I knew, a True Trac was in the $350 to $370 range. For about $100 less you can get a Dana Trac-Lok, which is the same clutch-type limited slip the factory used. Not as aggressive as a True Trac and requires friction modifier in the gear oil, but still better than an open axle. The Trac-Lok is also a complete carrier, so again you would not need an open carrier if you buy it.

 

Thanks. I did a bit of reading up last night, so I now understand the diff ( :D ) between an open carrier and a carrier as part of an LSD. I think that a Trac-Loc would be more than sufficient for the kind of traveling I do (carrying a camper into remote locations in the desert and Baja), so I'll also investigate that route.

[CWLONGSHOT]

Another one that's good but not popular is the PoweR-Loc. I may have the name wrong, but its a bit older, been around longer and is a beefier Trash-lock.

 

http://www.ringpinion.com/PartsList.asp ... fferential

 

Its 140$ @ Randy's R&P and it also is a good aggressive LSD.

 

CW

[summerinmaine]

Another one that's good but not popular is the PoweR-Loc. I may have the name wrong, but its a bit older, been around longer and is a beefier Trash-lock.

 

http://www.ringpinion.com/PartsList.asp ... fferential

 

Its 140$ @ Randy's R&P and it also is a good aggressive LSD.

 

CW

 

Thanks for the link.

 

But isn't that $140 just for the clutch kit? The Powr-Lok LSD is @$400, correct? Or am I missing something? :dunno: