Horn Button... Missing Bits And Pieces, I Think.

[gogmorgo]

So I got cut off this morning, nearly put a Comanche-shaped dent in the side of a Chevy Traverse. Had to climb on to the center median to get out of the totally oblivious guy's way who seemed intent on changing lanes into exactly where I was. But at any rate, this inspired me to take another crack at getting my horn working.

A little history:

 

When I bought my truck, the PO said that the mechanic told him when he got it safetied that the horn didn't work and the "horn solenoid" needed replacing. So this summer, I did some poking around, and discovered that my horn did actually work, just wasn't getting power. I assumed the relay was bad, as per the PO. I wasn't entirely sure which relay it was, but I picked up a new one anyhow. The local parts counter drones picked it out for me when I asked for a horn relay.

This afternoon, I swapped out both of the properly shaped relays under the dash for the new one, and neither of them solved the issue. So I ran a jumper wire to the 87 slot on each relay holder, and one of them sounded the horn. (not the best way to test, I know...) I tested the relay that was in that spot, and sure enough it was bad. Also tested the new one, and it's good. So that was a problem, but not my whole problem. Moving on to the horn button.

I'd pulled apart the button shortly after I got the truck (don't really remember why) and I'd followed some instructions and made sure the button was together properly, that the plates were in the right order. I did that again this summer. Both times, everything seemed to be in order, but I couldn't really figure out how the button was supposed to work, since as far as I could tell, all it was doing was pressing against the shaft of the steering column, but it wasn't getting power from anywhere. I think I posted a thread asking about that or shoutboxed it, got minimal response, and left with the impression that it was "normal", although I was still skeptical.

 

 

 

So today I pulled the horn button off, and decided to figure out how it worked. This time, I pulled the steering wheel and the steering lock plate thing off, and noticed a deep round hole in the turn signal switch with a shiny copper contact (looked like some bare wires) at the bottom, as though there should have been a pin of some kind in the hole. I also noticed a small spring caught in the turn signal switch, but no sign of a pin. Sure enough, when I jumped the contacts to ground, the horn beeped. I've got pictures on my phone that I'll post when I get home.

So my question is: how does the contact at the bottom of that hole connect to the horn button? Should there be a pin down in that hole and it's spring loaded? Or is that spring part of the turn signal switch return which doesn't work? I'm pretty sure the horn button itself is working, but it's just not connecting anything to anything else. Should there be a wire running to something in the horn button? I've got a '91 4L auto if it makes a difference.

 

If I've got time later this week, I'll likely hit up a jy and see if I can find an unmolested column to compare to.

[jimoshel]

There should be a wire approx 4 in long with a flat disc like terminal on one end and a slip on blade terminal on the other. The wire goes thru the center of the spring. The flat disc part is down and slides on the shiny surface you saw thru the hole. The other end connects to a spade terminal on the horn button. There should be a plastic sleeve slides over the wire and pushes on the spring that fits snug in the hole and holds everything together. Hopefully somebody will chime in with pics. Otherwise I'll get some in the morn.

[HOrnbrod]

Should there be a pin down in that hole and it's spring loaded?

 

That's exactly how it is. The nylon retainer presses into the hole, and the spring is inserted into the retainer, then the pin rides inside the spring. All Jeep three-spoke steering wheels, and many GM wheels use these same three parts for horn activation.

 

J3187257, RETAINER

J3187255, SPRING

52004403, PIN

 

If you go to the yard and pull the horn button, remove the insulated three screws and pull off the spring plate, it will all be immediately obvious. 

[skidoo_j]

You can get the parts at any autoparts store in their fix it parts.  Look for horn part for a chevy.   you have to modify it a bit, but 2 dolllars and you're up and running.  

[gogmorgo]

Wow. That was quick. Don't think I even need to worry about posting my pics cause you guys already know what I'm talking about, but I will anyway for anyone else who stumbles across this thread with my issues. When I get home of course.

I might have to stop by a parts store on my way home if any are still open, see what they have. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm looking for now. I've got some experience with Chevy horns, but never got below the steering wheel.

[HOrnbrod]

Either this one:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-OEM-STEERING-WHEEL-HORN-CONTACT-CAM-WIRE-FOR-GM-/390684152992

 

or this one:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/67-81-CORVETTE-PONTIAC-FIREBIRD-HORN-CONTACT-KIT-NEW-GM-/220808839263

 

depending on which steering wheel you have.

[gogmorgo]

As promised, here's the pic, although you'll have to forgive the crappy cellphone by flashlight quality... I'd been crawling around under the dash messing with relays and I was getting cold so I was a little shaky. The arrow points to what I think is the hole I'm talking about. Not that you guys need it.

[gogmorgo]

So i'm at the yard. The only 3 spoke wheel there is in an 84 xj. Same thing?

[skel130]

Yeah. It's the GM column you're looking at anyways.

[gogmorgo]

So all you people who know so well what you're talking about...

Well, of the links Hornbrod posted, the second one (without the wire) is what I was missing... but that wasn't all. And that became glaringly obvious when I pulled the button pieces off the XJ at the yard. The picture I posted above is everything that I had in there after pulling off the steering wheel lock plate. Just the turn signal cam &c.

 

So in order of what you remove when getting at this, what I assume should be there (based on the XJ) and what I'm missing.

Steering wheel center/horn button - there.

Horn button pieces - all there.

Steering wheel and retaining nut- there.

Plastic piece that covers the steering lock plate - there.

Steering lock plate - there

Plastic plate where the above horn contact pin sits (with the tube that sticks out through the steering wheel) - The entire thing is missing.

Spring - there.

Turn signal cam/headlight/wiper switches - mostly all there. Except there's another horn contact pin that goes in the hole I pointed out in the picture above which was missing. This one makes contact with the brass ring on the plastic plate that I was missing.

 

So I pulled everything I was missing from the XJ, and brought it all home. Cost me nothing (the guy behind the counter looked at me funny when I showed him my box full of tiny bits and springs and stuff, and said bye and walked away). When I was putting it back together (that spring is impossible to compress far enough!!!) I managed to break the tube that pokes through the steering wheel, so I'm sitting and waiting for the epoxy to set. I don't wan't to have to go through the process of pulling the snap ring off the steering lock plate (chased that stupid thing around for half an hour at the yard) and then compressing that damn spring again, so I'm hoping the epoxy holds. If not, I'm beginning to suspect it might be easier just to replace the whole column... Lot of effort just for a horn...

[skel130]

Depending on the year, (I don't know this for a fact) the springs may be a slightly different length. Try trimming up the spring a little. I also vaguely remember the orientation of the pin mattering....but my mind could be playing tricks on me. I've never been inside my MJ's column, the last time I dealt with it was when I fixed the wobble in my '89 camaro. 

[gogmorgo]

Well, it was just below 0F last night when I was putting her back together in a dark parking lot at school so I could drive home, and I wasn't wearing gloves, so I'm going to say that's why I managed to forget to put the spring back in there without realizing that it wasn't there. Found it in my footwell when I parked at home last night. Something's catching when I turn the wheel, so I'm going to have to tear into her again to put the spring back. I'm starting to think that maybe the horn cam was left out because someone couldn't get that spring in there with it in. There are quite a few things I've noticed with this truck where it seems someone said "@#$% it, good enough" and it's kinda making me angry at whoever it was. But it's really driving me to make sure things go back together properly...

But on the plus side, somehow the way things are back together now, the turn signals are auto-cancelling. Which is kinda awesome. They've never done that for me.

[gogmorgo]

So I emailed a mechanic buddy last night when I got home and he just replied. And told me to pick up one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648466-Steering-Wheel-Removal/dp/B004KED7RU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319157017&sr=8-1

My first reaction: OH MY GOD THAT THING LOOKS AMAZING!!!  :bowdown:

There's definitely something to be said for having the right tools for the job. Guess who's getting a new toy today  :)

[gogmorgo]

Well, when I pulled it apart this morning, the pin tube that goes through the steering wheel broke again. Guess the epoxy didn't like sticking to the plastic at 0F. So I brought the pieces inside and JB welded them after they warmed up.

Skel130, I'm thinking you may be right about the different sized springs. When trying to put it back together, I managed to bend the lock plate with the lock plate tool before getting the plate down far enough to get the clip on it. Since I'd already broken the plastic cam, I figured I'd try trimming it down a bunch instead of trimming the spring. As it was, I was only a couple mm shy of getting the clip on.

Also, found a diagram online.

The plastic cam I keep talking about is part #6. The pin that goes in that tube parts 12,13, 14) is what Hornbrod's refering to. It's that plastic tube that I managed to break. Also missing was the pin that contacts the brass ring on the back of the plastic disk. I thought briefly about taking the spring (part #7) from the XJ at the yard, and then didn't. If this doesn't work, I might have to go back and get it. I've also thought about making my life easier and leaving out the plastic disk like the PO did, and going to the other style of pin and connector, but there are a couple nubs on the plastic disk that I think are what is cancelling the turn signals, and I kinda like the cancelling thing. Although I'm not entirely liking the whole JBweld fix thing.

[gogmorgo]

Well, it's back together and working, and I'm pretty sure I didn't leave out any parts this time. I definitely enjoyed the sound of my horn echoing through the emptyish parking lot at 2am, although probably there are a few people who hate me now... it's just the stock single tone horn, but she's loud enough.

I also nearly cried every time my turn signal cancelled itself on the drive home because I was so happy, although I may have simply been a little short on sleep. But that's the thing that bugged me the most since I bought the truck, the turn signals that didn't cancel...

[HOrnbrod]

Good to hear you got it working. Next time you are at the yard, pull another horn from an XJ for the other side of your truck. The wiring is already there, so just bolt it on and plug it in. 

[gogmorgo]

Yeah, I've got a pair of horns I pulled off an 86 mj this summer. Just not sure where I put them, or if I even brought them with me when I came back for school. I'll have to do some digging if I get home at a decent time tonight.