CobraMarty Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Just ordered this, a little spendy but worth it to have a tach in the Diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Seemed to get the fuel system working fine. New stock height front and rear springs, monroe shocks, brakes, alignment, rear diff oil change. Turbine wheels installed and tires ordered and waiting. Drove about 700 miles and fuel gauge to almost empty and started to sputter so put in 25 gallons fuel (in a 32 gallon tank) and gauged showed full and was driving and it would cut off. It would start and then die. Drive 5 minutes and then die. Added a secondary rear mounted electric 'booster' fuel pump. Seemed better and then died again. Checked battery voltage and only like 12.1v and checked when running and still 12.1v. Went to Autozone and it seem that the 'New' alternator quit charging. It seems that the stalling is an electrical issue and not fuel related (will probably pull the booster feul pump out). The bad alternator must be taking the voltage down and then not enough to keep open the fuel cutoff solenoid and it dies. Autozone's supplier is out of these replacement with no future date. What, did I buy the only one they had? They will give me a refund for the bad alternator but I think I am going to keep it as a core if they are that rare. I now have 2 bad alternators, original and Autozone. I will take these to a local alt rebuilder and see what he can do. Looked on RockAuto and they list one but when I put it in my cart, they take it out of my cart as 'not available'. Found an alternator on ebay from FL, rebuilt for $100. Ordered and will see. On the bright side, this Deisel XJ looks like it will get 1000 miles per tankful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I have driven with no starter or alternator in ours, bump starting down the hill. Never had a cutout. There are basically two solenoids that keep fuel coming. That is all the engine *needs* to run. So your battery juice must have been at 12.1v, but damn near full discharge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 What's the second solenoid? I only know of the one on the bsck of the injector pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Then there is one. I think ours had one before the filter as well, but it was added on. But, once running, that is the only thing on the engine drawing electric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Thanks, that is what I thought. I think that with the bad alternator still in place it is ?shorting or decreases the voltage of the fully charged battery such that it is low enought that the fuel cut off solenoid is 'fluttering' and then quits and closes and the engine dies. Today going to pull the alternator off and get it bench checked to be sure it is bad and maybe try the engine again without the alt in place and just jump 12v to the solenoid. Worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Tape the end of the charge wire if you run without Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Bench tested at Autozone and failed, output 8.4v. Was raining all day and didn't try without alt in place. Will do on taping the charge wire. There was 1 broken wire off the plug in connector. It was for the 'L'. I think that is just for the dash light. I have to look up the electrical schematic. I don't think that broken wire would have taken out the alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 New rebuilt ACDelco alternator installed and 13.8v at idle. Good. Starts and seemed to start and idle fine, and then dies. Pulled the 'booster pump' out of line and re-connected the fuel line. It starts and then dies. It also was dying with the 'booster pump' in place. Called a diesel mechanic friend and he said that the 'Fuel Cut Off Solenoid' can fail and when it does it is initially intermittant and then completely fails. No way to bench test the solenoid. Ordered a new one, $35. New thought/theory is the Fuel cut off solenoid was failing 'intermitantly' all this time and also the alternator took a dump at this same time (original 190,000+ bearing failure and rebuilt AutoZone voltage regulator failure). We'll see this week when the new fuel cut off solenoid gets installed. On a good note, the General Grabber AT2 225/70 15 tires finally came in. Now need to pick them up and get them mounted and balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 OK finally got the fuel cut off solenoid out and it seemed to be working when I bench tested it with 12v. Maybe it gets weak when it gets hot. IDK. Took the plunger out and screwed it back in as a way to bypass it, won't be able to turn off the engine and would have to stall it to stop the engine. Started up but still not running well. It would still stall out. Got it idling longer to warm up and it was idling rough and still wouldn't take any throttle to rev out and then would die. Very frustrating. IDK, ?summer gas? bad glow plugs? Injector pump finally took a dump? What is the symptoms of a bad Injector pump? rough idle? not reving? engine dying? Now it is getting frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 how do the vents and vent hoses on the fuel tank look? Had an 86 xj here that would do exactly this...the hose for the vacuum from the frame rail hard line to the tank was bad. Check all lines for the tank vents for wear, cracks, breaks, dry rot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 All hoses are good and tight. No leaks. I can easily suck fuel to the front with a hand vacuum pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I don't mean the fuel lines, I mean the vent lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Basically, the way the senders are designed, if the hoses on top of the tank are rotted or damaged or otherwise leaking, it will suck air into the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Last month we dropped the tank and changed and checked all the lines and vents. Replaced a clogged in tank filter and now have a good line from tank to pump. No leaks or vent issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Alternator replaced and working well. New issue on 3 different occasions. When the fuel gets to about 1/2 tank, the engine stumbles, stalls at idle and barely runs, like it is out of fuel. Top off the tank and it works fine again. Noticed a small leak at the fuel tank. ?Sucking air? The tank is an aftermarket 32 gallon 'gas' tank. Was it installed incorrectly? Is the fuel pump in the injector pump failing and losing suction? Does it need a 'booster' electric fuel pump back at the tank? So yesterday dropped the fuel tank, found taht the leak was a loose clamp on the return line. Pulled the tank draw/return plate out of the tank and found a very dirty nearly clogged 'filter sock' on the end of the fuel pickup. Tried to source a new one and couldn't find one, so just replaced the draw tube with a copper piece and set it to 1/2" off the bottom. Added new lines and clamps and reinstalled. Apparently diesels don't use that in tank fuel sock. Changed the fuel filter/separator in the engine compartment with a new AC Delco part. Who knows how old the one in place was. Decided to give it a try before installing the electric 'booster' pump. Cranked it and it definitely self primed and started right up. Sputtered at first and then settled down to a nice smooth idle. With the 1/2 tank of fuel in it currently, before it was stalling. Took it for a test drive. Smooth, accelerated without stumbling or hesitation, seemes a bit faster, smoother and quieter that before. Drove it 30 minutes and we couldn't get it to replicate the problem it was having before. Seems fixed for now. We think that the filter sock was meant for the 'Gas' use of the 32 gallon tank and not diesel. Between the clogged filter sock and an unknown fuel filter ? clogged, these 2 things were causing enough restriction in the supply line that the fuel pump couldn't suck hard enough to get fuel. At full tank there is slightly increased pressure on hte fuel to help push it up and out the supply line. As it became close to 1/2 tank there was less pressure due to the weight of the fuel to 'help push' the fuel out. At least that is our current theory. A booster pump would have also fixed the problem but that would just be MM and cover up the clogged filter sock and fuel filter. Today tackling the brakes and suspension. Here is a pic of our fuel pickup and return. Before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hmm bet, leak where the hose is. But those still aren't the lines I am talking about. There are two 1/8" I'd lines to the top of the tank, teed together, hooked to a pair of check valves on the top of the tank, spaced roughly kiddy corner from each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 I have an aftermarket 32 gallon tank. All the vent lines are clear. I could just remove the gas cap if suspect? The tank is full to the brim so even if the hose was leaking it would be covered with fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 IDK if the IP got some crud in it past the filter/separator, a bad load of fuel, or just worn out 190k. It's raining today so I don't think I will get much done on it today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 So more on this. It will start and stumble, not take throttle and die. Pulled the injectors and took them to Miller Diesel in Harrisburg PA and they checked them and cleaned them. They said they weren't too bad. Reinstalled and no different. Pulled the return fuel line off the injector pump and ran to a bottle and there was NO fuel coming out at all. Miller diesel said to check this and that quite a bit of fuel should be flowing as this is how the pump stays cool. NO FLOW. They thought it could be a worn pump or clogged or gunked up with varnish. Only way to know and fix is to pull it and take it to them to take apart and clean and repair/replace anything needed. Hopefully in the next few days, weather dependent, we can pull the pump and thake it to them. Can't wait to get this back running and on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JENSSEN Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Man I want to get My Diesel running,.. this thread has been great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Injector Pump is off and at Miller's Diesel for a check/clean/rebuild. Major pain in the ..., as had to pull the pulley off the IP to get it out of the bracket. Luckily I had a small 3 jaw puller in the toolbox. There is soo much room in there now. Can get to the glow plugs and starter. The starter is original 190k and looks pretty bad. Figure now is the time to change it. Can't get to it from underneath. Only access is from above after the IP is removed. Now trying to find and order one. Getting tough to find. Expensive. One place is backordered until maybe after 1/1/15. Just ordered a rebuild from AutoZone and one from RockAuto England. We'll see which comes in first and whether I keep the others or cancel them. Ordered some new glow plugs while I'm at it, $4.50each, and a new glow plug controller box and some extra rocker arms, $18each, as the additional shipping was only $4. RockAuto shipped from England. When all this goes back together, will have to re-time the cam/IP/engine/belt, again. My son is getting good at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Now the bad... Injection pump had been rebuilt incorrectly in the past. A shaft was grooved, parts worn, bad low pressure pump and other issues. All contributed to not working correctly. A full rebuild, done correctly and with warranty, $1245. Ouch. Can damn near buy another rusted out diesel jeep for not much more, but what would be the condition of the IP? The Jeep's 'a bucket of xxxx' without the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillithium Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Ouch, that's a lot of money for one part. Is it a Renault or Jeep specific part? If it is a Renault part, I may have more luck in finding it cheap(er) over here. PM me with a partnumber and I'll see what I can find at the Renault dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thanks. Here is what I have on the part- 1985 Jeep Cherokee XJ, engine was also in the Comanche 2.1L Intercooled Turbo Diesel J8SBosch EPVE Fuel Injection Pump, Bosch No. 0460 494 160, Vehicle Model VE4/9F2200R183 The 2.1L TD was also in the Renault Trafic and Espace of the mid and late 80's. I tried Ebay Canada and UK. Found 4 complete XJs in England for like 1500 pounds. Wish I could find one at a breaker's yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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