NewToJeeps Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I have a 90 MJ 4x2, 4.0 with auto trans. I have put a basically a new starting system on it. I have replaced the battery the battery cables cleaned my grounding points put on a new starter and replaced the starter relay and fixed a few bad spade connectors. It did just fine for a day or so now it has quit starting again. I can pop the hood and use a jumper wire on the starter relay wires just enough to bump the engine over (not holding it to make it start) and after that i can get in and hit the key. It starts like nothing was ever wrong. Very slow to start but it does start. Anyone got any ideas ? Help is very appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 is it in the column? if you're jumping the relay and she'll crank then you're not sending juice to the relay right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 Thats what i was thinking at first. But after thinking about it I'm not sure. See i can hit it with a jumper wire just enough to get the engine to move, not even a complete rotation. I don't let it start that way. Then i get in it and the ignition works fine. It turns over like there wasn't a problem. I'm wondering if that CPS could be the problem even though its been replaced. It seems like it needs to be jumped and moved a little It wouldn't be the first time i have got bad parts from the parts store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNL1MTD Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 what is it doing not doing? Like do you hear the solenoid click? Is the starter cranking? Do you have a excessively long crank (greater than 8 sec)? Does she catch and die? I know when i first got mine, I had to use cables to jump the motor, ended up being corrosion on the cables/terminals. I would also recommend making sure you have a clean conencting on the starting solenoid post. When I swapped battery cables I had this on the post but just not right and it wouldn't start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 15, 2008 Author Share Posted March 15, 2008 It not doing anything. no clicking sounds no dragging ... nothing. When i get out and use the jumper to cross the terminals on the relay it bumps over fine. then the key switch does fine. When i get the key to work its very hard to start. I normaly have to hit the key 3-4 times. I count to 15 and let off the key and try again in a minute or two. Sometimes it almost fires but just sputters and dies then the next time it'll fire up. The cables and starter and solenoid are all brand new. Their clean and the connections are good. as far as the hard starting problem some of that is the mess of vacuum hoses the previous owner left. Anyone got a good diagram ? besides the hanes manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNL1MTD Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 It not doing anything. no clicking sounds no dragging ... nothing. Based on this I would have to assume you have a bad conection from your battery to your starter solenoid. Take it off the post, use a stiff brush and make sure the connection is clean. But that only is a guess to it not clicking or anything. You do seem to have an extra long start at 15 secs. I'm not sure I follow when you say 'jumper across terminals.' Are you bypassing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Ok. When i say I'm jumping it what i do is jump from the hot terminal on the relay (that connects directly to the battery) to the terminal that sends the power to the solenoid on the starter. If you look straight down at the solenoid i am using a little piece of wire to connect the hot terminal from the battery directly to the middle terminal which is the one that sends power to the starter solenoid. The long start is what is making me think its the CPS. But I'm not sure. but I'm starting to think that is a whole other problem for a whole different day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNL1MTD Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Ok. When i say I'm jumping it what i do is jump from the hot terminal on the relay (that connects directly to the battery) to the terminal that sends the power to the solenoid on the starter. If you look straight down at the solenoid i am using a little piece of wire to connect the hot terminal from the battery directly to the middle terminal which is the one that sends power to the starter solenoid. The long start is what is making me think its the CPS. But I'm not sure. but I'm starting to think that is a whole other problem for a whole different day. There should be a cable from your battery to the post on the solenoid, so you shouldn't need that jumper wire you are using. Or if you have that wire already, which it sounds like, and you need this wire. [if you can take a picture of the whole jumper deal and post that would clear up the confusion] Then the existing wire is making a poor contact at either the battery or solenoid. In regards to the long start, these trucks normally have a long start. On average mine is 5-6 seconds. It has something to do with the cps needing the engine to crank before it gets a reading, I'm not too sure. But, 15 sec does seem excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 The long start is what is making me think its the CPS. But I'm not sure. but I'm starting to think that is a whole other problem for a whole different day. Nope. The '90 is a Renix, and they have some sort of system check built into the start -- they all start "long." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Nope. The '90 is a Renix, and they have some sort of system check built into the start -- they all start "long." Thanks Eagle for the info. As for that pic. i have a few i was planning to post in the "introduce your Comanche" thread tonight. But ill get a pic of that relay tomorrow and try to get it posted up pretty quick. The connections are all good and clean and put together tight. i went over them all today to make sure i didn't forget anything. It's gotta be something simple I'm not noticing. Thanks everyone for all the help. I know its aggravating to deal with a noob but i really would like to drive this truck. It's getting personal now lol. Another stupid question. What does the Renix system mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 The next time it don't start, try moving the gear selector out of park, all the way down and back into park. It almost sounds like the NSS is not letting the relay jump to the starter. And when you 'jumping the solenoid, your 'jerking' the NSS just enough to get in into proper place. The next item to check is the ignition switch on the bottom of the steering column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Thank you. I was just told in another thread that Comanches don't have a NSS. Maybe i was reading wrong ? Or maybe just some do and some don't. Either way ill check it tomorrow. On the column.. Do they have the little sliding switch like general motors ? (it has the little metal rod that slides up and down to the different contacts ) Or is it a whole different animal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 From your spec's you say you have a AW4, or an Automatic. All Jeeps in that era have a Neutral Safety Switch. Located on the right side of the transmission. The gear selector cable attaches to the left side, and a "rod" runs thru the transmission to the right side into the NSS. Do they have the little sliding switch like general motors ? Yes they do, because it is a GM steering column ;) And including the metal rods. One for the Park lock out cable (auto), and one for the ignition switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonrider477 Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 if you find that the nss is the problem,don't faint when you price it at the dealer.last time i checked it was 200 bucks! i bypassed mine so it will start anytime.not the safest thing to do but if you are the only driver it should be ok to do so.the connector for it is on the passenger side near the firewall/valve cover area.a wiring diagram will tell you which 2 wires to hook together to bypass it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Yeah i think i will be going around mine too or adding a toggle switch. I did that to an old chevy truck after my mom let the starter drag the tuck into her car... But then again on this one i am putting heavy home made bumpers on it made from 4"x6" tube steel...thats not gonna give much so if they let it hit something it won't hurt my truck :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Actuality the price on the NSS is closer to $300 :eek: But there is a way to "re-built" it, there's a down load file here- http://www.lunghd.com/Downloads_and_Links/Downloads.htm But check it out first to see it that's your problem ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejndssn Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Wildman wrote Actuality the price on the NSS is closer to $300 But there is a way to "re-built" it, there's a down load file here- .... I have found that the retainer nut on the NSS was very loose :brows: which i have tighten up and whala she lives this was on my 96 cherokee with the kinda same problems u have been experiencing. i would see if loose or still there may have to go to a bone yard for the retainer and get the NSS while you there and do as the site recommended by wildman for rebuilding to have a hot stand by :cheers: good luck and keep us posted. [/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Thanks Wildman for the rebuild info. The NSS really does sound like the problem. I am still not 100% sure as i haven't looked yet. I have an ongoing Geo Tracker repair i have to get back to today so maybe i'll get Back to the jeep soon. Here is a pic of the Starter relay as it was requested yesterday.. Sorry about the quality, my phone don't like close ups.. Jumping the main (One with a nut and bunch of wires) to the center terminal. Hope that info helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Well i got it fixed....... It turned out to be a 1 cent problem.....literally ! It was in a way the NSS. It wasn't reading that it was in park fully on the NSS do to a Penny lodged in the shifter.... After a few four letter words and a mashed finger.....she fires right up. Thanks everyone for all the help and info. I hope you all get a little laugh out of this one lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well glad to hear it was some thing really simple, and you got it up and running :D And we don't laugh at any one here, no matter what, your thinking of that other place :roll: Sounds like you make a penny out of the deal, after all the problems you had :D Just remember what JT Design says - K.I.S.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 LOL - Well said... I'm trying to keep it simple...normally simple isn't a penny jammed where its not supposed to be lol. Now maybe ill get on to other things. i got my rims swapped out for some off a ford ranger and got a lil wider stance...next up is locating an oil leak and finding me a 4x4 for parts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNL1MTD Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 congrats, I wish I got paid everytime I made a repair. Even if its just 1 cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewToJeeps Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 It's a little off topic but if i had a penny for every time i repaired my Geo tracker.... Lets just say i could afford to not fix anything myself anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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