CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Thanks everyone here for some great posts and information and forum. I don't have a comanche yet but have 4 Cherokees . My most recent is a 1985 Cherokee with the 2.1L Diesel. Just got it home last night and started looking at it closely. It was running and the PO replaced the water pump and had to remove the timing belt and replaced it without any attempt to keep it timed. No suprprise it didn't start. He said he only cranked it over like 3 times and it didn't start so he stopped. No loud noise or clank. So today the project started. I have read so many threads and posts. Here on ComancheClub there is the some of the most knowledgable guys on the 2.1L diesel. Pulled the alternator, found the TDC plug and 5/16" 6" bolt fits and works great. Tried to turn the crank and the timing belt didn't turn. Pulled the timing belt and the teeth were broken off around the crank pulley. Tried to turn the cam pulley by hand and it turns maybe 1/10 and stops going either direction. ?Interference, IDK. Here is where I stopped for tonight. Plan is to pull the valve cover and loosen the rockers and take the pressure off the valves and see if they all seat, hopefully they did not get bent by PO. Then I can rotate the crank and cam without getting any valve/piston interference. I can then set the crank to #1 TDC with the TDC tool and then rotate the cam and FP sprockets to their correct position and then tighten down the rockers and install the belt, rotate twice to check. OK so my problem is- 1) Does anyone have a timing belt cover for sale? PO 'lost' it. 2) without a timing belt cover and the 'windows' to see the timing marks, How else can I set the sprocket marks? Do they point straight up? Do they point in line with the cylinders? Are they 90degrees to a line between the sproket holes? 3) Where to source a timing belt? RockAuto and wait for shipment from UK? 4) Autozone seems to have valve cover gaskets. Thank you in advance for all your 2.1L diesel help and advice. Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 You just buy this one off of eBay?Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Or did you have it listed on eBay? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 It was on ebay, seller ended listing early and sold it to us. Not the best shape, probably paid too much, but now it is ours and a new project. Getting our feet wet on diesel engines, readling as much as possible, learning every hour. If the timing belt has 3 yellow marks and even if not just mark it ourself at 52 teeth-cam-19 teeth-IP-77 teeth and set TDC with the tool and pull the front crank pulley and see the timing pulley and set the mark on the timing pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I'm reading the sellers CF thread... Just reading it makes me nervous, especially because it seems he had no diesel experience, and just tanked the motor. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yeah, that's the problem. Why pull the timing belt to change the water pump? ? Worse case is a few bent valves? Please no piston damage. Pull the head, get the valves and rebuild it, reinstall and start again. More labor than money, great education on diesel engines for my son. At least the engine is kinda simple, small, light, and 4 cylinders. At least it didn't break the timing belt while driving. Hoping for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Any idea how many 2.1L diesel cherokees and comanches are out there? How many went into production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Don't pull that head unless you source the head gasket first. They are different sizes to set head height. The reason the timing belt probably came off or loose is that the tensioner is built into the water pump... First things first, what kind of background do you have when it comes to diesels? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 If you want, I am going to be posting in the CF thread, because that will have more exposure. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Diesels, learning as we go. RockAuto for the Renaults 2.1L TD lists the 3 head gasket thickness. I would hate to have to buy all three to have on hand and then measure which is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 That's fine, my son will most likely be starting a new thread about this vehicle there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I hate to say it, but this isn't the one to learn on. Parts are expensive and hard to come by... Have you considered selling it? Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Not really. It hasen't even been home 24 hours. The 'challange' is the fuel for the project. There is some value in it. Brand new 31" tires, still clean stickered EMU lift kit leafs, springs, shocks, quick disconnects, 32 gallon gas tank. ? worse case part it out? If we got a cleaner, running more expensive diesel which seem to be difficult at best to find, where is the learning by doing? Wasn't really wanting to have to pull the head but if necessary... Engines are rare in the states but seem to be more plentiful and cheap abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 They may be cheap abroad, but freight is another story. If nothing else, you need to start collecting some FSM's and materials: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Thanks, for your heads up and input. Got some more parts scrounging to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 How does it go, 'hope for the best and prepare for the worst'. Well the belt had the teeth knocked off around the crank pulley and the cam wouldn't spin. Not good. Today my son pulled the valve cover. The good news is, all the reading about this engine, being 'interference' that if there is a timing belt issue and the valves hit the pistons, the rockers are the weak link and ? if by design, are supposed to break and not the pistons or valves. Well maybe those crafty french designed it right. 7 of the 8 rocker were broken. All the valves appeared to rise and seat. Will have to measure the stem heights with a straight edge. Pictures to follow. ergg. RockAuto shows rockers for $20 each and $45 shipping from UK. Timing belt kit $120. Hey it's got a new water pump. whoopee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kook911 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 oh wow that does not look good at all. best of luck to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Interesting is that each rocker broke in the exact same place, almost like they were designed to do so if 'interference' occured. Break the rockers and save the valves and pistons. Maybe the French Renault engineers were smarter than we give them credit. I would much rather change the rockers than pull the head to do the valves or pull the engine to change the pistons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 They are designed to do just that. Let's just hope the PO stopped short of any prolonged issues. He seems to say in the thread he only tried to start it and stopped, but it looks like it was cranking for a lot longer than that. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Printed out the fsm, all 100+ pages. Ordered more literature and CDs from Rockauto/UK. Ordered parts. Shipping is expensive for the first item, not much more $ the more you order. Will have 7 souvenir rocker arms available soon. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I would just replace all eight. Hopefully that last holdout didn't bend the valve rather than break the rocker. Rob Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 8 rockers ordered. New problem, It doesn't have a front drive shaft. I think that the original PO who put a 2-3" OME lift kit on it and the front drive shaft with the CV joint at the T-case took a dump and he took it off and sait it was to 'get better mileage'. Again another case of he didn't know what he was doing and didn't replace the DS with one capable of the lift kit and increased angulation. Now to source a DS. Options seem to be -replace 207 yoke with a 231 yoke and run a double carden DS off another 4 cylinder 5 speed. -use an adapter to the 207 flange to a universal and get a DS made to the correct length. -any other suggestions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Use the 231 yoke and 2.5/2.8 ax5 do and be done. So, with all the rockers off, can you rotate the crank by hand and hear any hissing from intake or exhaust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraMarty Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 The plan is to take the lift kit off and return it to stock height. I did find a stock '85 CV front drive shaft for $75 on ebay. Son went to the JY yesterday and there are 90+% of the time 4.0s there. No 4 cylinders. Need to find a 4 cylinder donor. Waiting for parts, rockers and timing belt, etc. I have not yet removed all the rocker carnage and try to rotate anything yet. Almost afraid to, bent valve or broken piston will not be fun. The valves are very vertical and the pistons are dished but flat and I hope that the Renault engineers designed this so the rockers are the weakest link and when interference occurs, the pistons push straight up and not bend or break and cause the rockers to break. Interesting is that all the rockers seemed to break in almost the exact same place, almost like they were designed that way. IDK. Thanks for everyone's input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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