CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Question on alingments. Checked it and have the following problem. Camber 10deg Caster 4 deg. Can the caster out 4degs make the camber be out that much? Charels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 No. Caster is measured with the wheels turned. Camber is measured with the wheels straight ahead. BTW - what do you means by caster "out" 4 degrees? 4 degrees isn't enough caster, you should have about twice that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Checked both with the wheels straight ahead. Do I check the caster with the wheels full over? I know camber is to be 0deg , what could I have off to make my camber off that much? Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Checked both with the wheels straight ahead. Do I check the caster with the wheels full over? I know camber is to be 0deg , what could I have off to make my camber off that much? Charles unit bearings or bent axle? to check the unit bearings just jack a wheel off the ground, and wiggle it top to bottom to see if there is any play. there shouldnt be any. i dnot remember how to check balljoints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakal Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 for tie rod ends, take water pump pliers and squeeze the tie rod top to bottom, any play baaad it is :popcorn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Has 4 new ball joints and the bearings are also good. Do not think it's a bent axle as both sides tilt 10 degs in at the top and was fine till I put the lift in. So I think it has something to do with the 4.5" lift I put on the front, I know the lift set up was from a 5.5"lift and I did not use any spacers to get extra 1" for the 4.5" springs I used. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Has 4 new ball joints and the bearings are also good. Do not think it's a bent axle as both sides tilt 10 degs in at the top and was fine till I put the lift in. So I think it has something to do with the 4.5" lift I put on the front, I know the lift set up was from a 5.5"lift and I did not use any spacers to get extra 1" for the 4.5" springs I used. Charles shouldnt matter what height the springs are at... allt hat would affect is axle position l/r as compared to the body, and the steering wheel would be off. the tires are still mounting to the same thing, just at a higher level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 The caster isn't ideal but if it drives okay it won't hurt anything. It may feel like it wanders just the slightest bit but nothing too terrible. You really start noticing the wandering when you get down to 2 degrees. I believe the factory setting is around 7 degrees. (but remember, you don't have a factory Jeep anymore) - With the fixed lower arms that you have the caster would be closer to 7 degrees if you did add the spacers on the coils to bump it up around 5.5" or 6" of lift. There is no adjustment for camber other than offset balljoints. If the camber is off the axle has to be bent or something else is going on. What's the toe set at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Toe is set to around 1/8" toe in, it was way off after the lift. Had no problem until I put the lift on the front so it has to be something I have done :nuts: I will check the caster when I get home tonight as when I checked it at 4 deg was with the wheels stright ahead, but if the caster was way off (axle tilted back from not being at the 5.5" of lift that the UCA were set for) would that not throw camber out? Also going to put it on the lift tonight and see if Any shims are in the LCA pockets. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Camber can't be changed or adjusted by anything that you do. It is what it is and there is no adjustment or altering it no matter what you add, change, or do (with the acception being offset balljoints). So you didn't mess that up. I would ignore camber from here on out unless your front rims look like this... /-\ Then you may have bigger problems. Like I said in the last post, lifting it another inch or two would push the caster closer to where it needs to be. But, if you are opposed to doing that, see if there is any adjustment left in the frame mounts and see if that helps. If you can't change it from 4 degrees that's not necessarily a problem. There would be no long term, or short term, effects, damage, or problems caused by running 4 degrees of caster. Have you driven it yet to see how it drives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 I would ignore camber from here on out unless your front rims look like this... /-\ Then you may have bigger problems. /-\ is what I have, which I did not have prior. ( kind of looks like a Ford IFS that the springs have given out on :D ) So I have had to do something when I put the lift under it :nuts: If I can tonight I will take photos of everything and post. Only drove it around the drive / yard and it drives like a pig :D Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Ya... take some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Are the tires doing that and the rims actually staying straight? This can occur with lower pressures and different toe settings. Usually it will do it either after rolling forward and stopping or rolling backward and stopping. Usually doesn't happen both ways. If it's toed in it will do it going backwards If it's toed out it will do it going forwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 This exact same thing happened with both MJ's I have lifted. My front-end guy explained some of it to me during the alignment on the second one. It has to do with the rotation of the axle housing that happens when the body is raised - and nothing is done to correct the control arm geometry. One truck was corrected with just a good thorough alignment, one needed offset upper ball joints. Both trucks were done on the same new alignment rack by the same guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 Are the tires doing that and the rims actually staying straight? This can occur with lower pressures and different toe settings. Usually it will do it either after rolling forward and stopping or rolling backward and stopping. Usually doesn't happen both ways. If it's toed in it will do it going backwards If it's toed out it will do it going forwards Tires and rims doing it . Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 This exact same thing happened with both MJ's I have lifted. My front-end guy explained some of it to me during the alignment on the second one. It has to do with the rotation of the axle housing that happens when the body is raised - and nothing is done to correct the control arm geometry. One truck was corrected with just a good thorough alignment, one needed offset upper ball joints. Both trucks were done on the same new alignment rack by the same guy. Thanks, Need to look at the control arm geometry being I replaced both uppers and lowers. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 It won't matter what you do with control arms, no control arms, no track bar, five track bars, short arms, long arms, 3" of lift, 24" of lift, etc. etc. the axle is just that a solid axle. There is no adjustment or manipulation of camber other than offset balljoints. Think of it differently for a minute. Seperate the axle from the Jeep in you mind. Can you adjust or change camber (the tilt inward or outward of the top of the tire)? You have a center section, axle tubes, outer c's, knuckles, unit bearings (or hubs). This is a solid connection point for the wheel to mount to. There is no adjustment on the hubs. There is just 3 bolts on the back of the knuckle that hold it flat in the knuckle. The knuckle can be adjusted with offset balljoints but otherwise is fixed within the inner c. The c is welded to the tube and the tube is pressed in the center section. The only way for camber to be off is if one or several of the bolts are loose on the unit bearing or balljoints. Even the axle shaft bolt loose won't change the camber. If the tires aren't pointed straight ahead and instead are turned all the way to one side the effect of camber can be seen because of the caster. There has to be something else going on. Pics will help. I wish I could be there to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 If the unit bearings are really shot that could cause enough slop to cause it. Or if the tubes are bent or pushed up in the center section. I can't think of anything else that could cause it right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88MJay Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 The way I described the toe, low tire pressure deal, moving forward or back, can really give the illusion of serious camber issues. My MJ currently has too much caster. Leaning back 10 degrees. This exagerates the illusion. I had the same "look" going on when I had too much toe out. The tires looked like this... /-\ but it really only was the tires even though it seriously looked like my axle was "u" shaped or something was going on. As soon as I rolled the other way they went straight up and down again. I then set my toe to 0 and the "effect" is minimalized. Are you positive that the wheels are leaning too along with the tires? Have you tried rolling it forward with the tires straight and looking at it again or rolling it backwards with the wheels straight and looking at it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted April 25, 2007 Author Share Posted April 25, 2007 I will check again tonight. Also if I pull the center cap off the rim I should be able to check the rim and see if I have 0 deg camber on the rim :roll: What I have been thinking is if the UCA's are off and have so much caster that toe may my be giving the look of camber being off like you stated. I will see if I can check everything tonight and take some photos. It has to be something dumb as it's the same axle and tires that were on it and the lift parts worked for you and Bountyhunter. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 Another thing that might be going on: With your truck now lifted up you can see the camber problem whereas before the tops of the tires were covered and it wasn't as obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 you try putting a straight-edge on your axletubes yet? feerocknok i think it was had some way bent D30 tubes on stock tires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oizarod115 Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 this is feerocknok's truck with the bent axle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 One last thought from my recent experience: Our MJ that got the offset ball joints was lowered back down to stock and the camber went \-/, about the same amount that it was off the other way just after the lift. I know, it doesn't make sense to me either. But I couldn't argue with a guy who made it work by turning the adjustable upper BJ's back to 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 HEY! my axle looks like that! has for all of 15,000 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (time for a new one?!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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