Wj Sway Bar Swap

[Comanche County]

I saw this mod on either MiliJeepers or NAGCA and thought I'd try it. Can't find that link but, this is really simple. I'm still working on the brakes so I haven't had a chance to test it out yet but I know it'll be a vast improvement for on road handling.

 

Lots of pictures...

 

Proof it fits even with the skid plate. Some trimming of the skid plate is required.

 

 

 

The difference in thickness is substantial. The stock MJ bar was .95" and the WJ bar is 1.25"

 

 

 

My MJ is about 5K lbs and the stock bar was only marginally effective. It was bending so bad into the frame you can see how it was rubbing the bolts on my bumper tie-in brackets. Its like this on both sides. And yes, I know I have washers stacked, and no I don't know why I did that? :hmm:

 

You can see the new bar has about 3" of clearance from the unibody.

 

 

 

Okay, the sway bar brackets will bolt right in (almost). I used the front holes only and drilled a new hole into the unibody frame for the front holes and tapped it for a new bolt. This moves the sway bar forward. The metal is thin there so I also tacked the front of the sway bar bracket to the frame for a bit of piece of mind.

 

There's a gap between the frame rail and the front of the bracket. But it will pull up tight to the frame rail. I tried to bend the back of the bracket to match the curve in the frame rail but gave up, banged it with a hammer a few times and just threw it up there.

 

 

No front bolt, with the slight bend I put in the bracket, it cinches up to the frame rail.

 

View from the front:

 

I'd recommend mounting it like this in stock form, but if you've got a skid plate, you'll need to turn it over (upside down) where the front dip in the bar is faced upward.

 

 

It would be best to drill a hole in the frame rail for the front bolt and attach a nut on the inside of the frame rail by accessing it through the front. With the sway bar moved forward, you could easily fish a nut onto the bolt, its only about 2-3" deep inside the frame.

 

 

Okay, that's just mounting it. Easy stuff. Now the links. I already have JKS discos, which are old and need replacing btw, but it made it very easy for me. The stock sway bar studs on MJs and XJs are notorious for bending, breaking, or just rust welding to the nut. Later swivel type ZJ and TJ links would be an improvement, but I like the strength of the WJ design. Its single shear but still much better than the MJ/XJ style studded links.

 

I could've used the JKS link bushings but the bolts are too small IMO for a heavy jeep and a single shear type install. So I pressed the bushings out of the stock WJ end links and put them in the JKS discos. OD was close enough and the ID allowed for a much larger bolt. I used the stock WJ bolts to secure the top of the JKS links to the sway bar.

 

Some pics for comparison.

 

The JKS links with the stud bracket which attaches to a stock sway bar. The one on the left has the smaller bushing, on the right you can see the stock WJ end link bushing in the JKS link. The bolt on the right is a 12mm (thickness that is), 18mm head and nut.

 

The rubber on the stock WJ bushing is practically melted, I just shaved it down with my trusty benchmade.

 

Okay, there you go, its all bolted up. For those with stock end links and sway axle brackets, yours will look different. My jungle gym of suspension and steering isn't pretty but it works, its unique to this Jeep. So some fiddling and figuring will need to occur to get your links attached. Lot of ways to skin and eat that cat.

 

 

 

Now I thought the skid plate would go right in but that dip was in the way, so I just flipped the bar, its laterally symmetrical. When flipped it did raise up the ends of it slightly, but its no big deal.

 

 

See the difference?

 

 

 

It even cleared my steering gear box brace, not by much, they're pretty close.

 

Anyway, once I get it rolling again, I'll provide some feedback on improvements in handling.

 

 

:MJ 1:

 

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[ftpiercecracker1]

Nice little upgrade there, the list we can steal from a WJ is getting pretty long. :brows:

 

Booster

master cylinder

calipers

Tie rod

Tie rod ends

sway bar

newer intake

power steering box, i think.

 

what about the rest of the steering components?

[Comanche County]

I'm doing the brake swap now. I've already got the knuckles with the Down East offroad kit that I have. They provide a custom bracket and S-10 single piston calipers, which just aren't strong enough for the weight of my MJ. I believe they used the small calipers to allow 15" wheels, I think their new kits come with proper WJ brakes. I almost creamed a some old lady in a sub-compact the other day which is what spawned the whole operation. That and a bad heim joint on my track bar. Now I'm in for ball joints, four rod ends, calipers and redrilled WJ rotors, figured I might as well do the sway bar while I was there.

 

To do the brakes, you need the WJ knuckles, rotors (or Sport Trac rotors) and calipers (the 2nd gen WJ Akebenos, preferred over the first gen Teeves), but to retain the 5x4.5 bolt pattern you need 2000+ XJ/TJ unit bearings. Just need to pick those up and I'll be done.

[ftpiercecracker1]

I'm doing the brake swap now. I've already got the knuckles with the Down East offroad kit that I have. They provide a custom bracket and S-10 single piston calipers, which just aren't strong enough for the weight of my MJ. I believe they used the small calipers to allow 15" wheels, I think their new kits come with proper WJ brakes. I almost creamed a some old lady in a sub-compact the other day which is what spawned the whole operation. That and a bad heim joint on my track bar. Now I'm in for ball joints, four rod ends, calipers and redrilled WJ rotors, figured I might as well do the sway bar while I was there.

 

To do the brakes, you need the WJ knuckles, rotors (or Sport Trac rotors) and calipers (the 2nd gen WJ Akebenos, preferred over the first gen Teeves), but to retain the 5x4.5 bolt pattern you need 2000+ XJ/TJ unit bearings. Just need to pick those up and I'll be done.

 

 

I'm a little confused, :hmm: . So what can we use off a WJ? I thought the caliper upgrade was a PnP?

[Comanche County]

Its almost PnP, there are some differences in the WJ D30 and MJ/XJ D30. The WJ D30 is wider, 5' x 5" bolt pattern, stub shaft length is shorter. So to get the larger brakes and retain a 5"x4.5" bolt pattern a few things need to be addressed. It also opens up a can of worms with steering linkages. Best to gather all the parts and make a good plan before tearing into it.

 

Parts needed:

• WJ knuckles
  
• 2000+ XJ/TJ unit bearings
  
• Redrilled WJ rotors to 5"x4.5" or purchase Ford Sport-Trac rotors. They are 5"x4.5" and 12" rotors like the WJ rotors.
  
• Longer than stock brake lines appropriate for your lift/suspension configuration. The WJ brake line attaches at the bottom of the caliper.
  
• Upper XJ/MJ ball joints, lower WJ ball joints. WJ lowers are 1.5"/ft taper, XJ lowers are 2"/ft taper.
  
• 02'-04' WJ Akebeno calipers, they have slimmer and longer brake pads that alleviate the rotor warping issue that early WJs experienced with the Teeves calipers. Teeves will work fine though, that's what I pulled at the yard. There were no newer WJs available.
  
• 16" wheels, the calipers are bigger. Some 15" wheels will clear but its tight, some will clear with minor grinding on the caliper
  
• Steering --- WJ knuckles allow for cross-over steering, best to take advantage of it and ditch the inverted Y set up.
  

The WJ knuckle uses a larger unit bearing, the inner "circle" of the knuckle is larger than the unit bearing. This space can be filled with a spacer like on this link: http://www.4x4wire.c...ckles/index.htm

 

Without filling this space you're risking breaking the unit bearing hub at the three threaded ears where the 12pt bolts attach. The weight of the vehicle will be on those bolts, with heavy offroad use, breakage could happen.

 

Another option to address the space is to weld a 1/4" spacer to the knuckle that has an ID which fits the OD of the unit bearing. JKS sells the spacer, or you could make your own. With this spacer welded to the knuckle, the unit bearing is supported by the knuckle, the knuckle then bears the weight of the vehicle. http://www.4wd.com/J...&t_pn=JKSOGS930

 

1/4" spacer welded to the knuckle: (pic stolen from the interwebby) Some forgo the welding though and just sandwich the spacer and have no problems. I think welding is the way to go.

 

The stub shaft on the WJ D30 is shorter, if you tried to use the WJ unit bearing the back of the bearing would bottom out against the longer MJ/XJ stub shaft. What needs to happen in order to retain proper axle u-joint, ball joint and brake caliper alignment is to use unit bearings from a 2000+ XJ or TJ with the 1/4" spacer. I have Timken unit bearings on mine that are correct for the my MJ and with the 1/4 spacer, they align the axle u-joints and ball joints, but they do not allow the rotor to line up correctly with the caliper.

 

If you run a parts search on XJ/MJ/ZJ/TJ unit bearings for various years, you'll see there's several different part numbers. The reason you use 2000+ XJ/TJ bearings is because of a difference in brake rotor length of the rotor "hat" (and thickness) in certain years, they're "shorter" and will align the rotors and calipers. This was to compensate for cast rotors. Right now, I've got about a 1/4' space between my caliper bracket and the knuckle. Here's a pic of mine with the older unit bearing. I could use washers or a spacer but I think it would be hokey. I'll get the 2000+ unit bearings and get it lined up correctly.

 

Also, the ID of the WJ rotor needs to be trimmed by a couple of mils. There's a very slight ridge on the unit bearing hub on the WMS side that the rotor will not fit over. The lug nuts would essentially press the rotor on but that would make removal more difficult.

 

btw, the rotors are rusty in my pic, just haven't had them resurfaced yet.

 

There's a ton of info on this swap on the web, also a lot of misinformation. So if I've mistated something someone please correct me. Also, keep in mind I've got a hybrid D44/D30 axle with inverted T hi-steering, its a frankenstein monster that I love/hate. The steering is good and it functions great, and the tie rod is well protected, its really high!!!! But if I had to do this over again, I'd go with a OTK cross-over set up like this: http://www.frontrang...ckle-swap-build

 

 

Links:

http://www.4x4wire.c...ckles/index.htm

http://www.virtualje...ckle-conversion

http://www.naxja.org...d.php?t=1004721

http://mallcrawlin.c...sion-parts-list

http://www.frontrang...ckle-swap-build

http://www.jeepsrus.org/index.asp?p=Tech_WJhubs001

[Comanche County]

Got the brakes finished and drove the MJ around for a bit today. What a fantastic change, the jeep is much more stable with the larger sway bar. No more rocking like a boat and I'm a lot more comfortable now if I have to make a dynamic maneuver to avoid a collision. Should have done this a long time ago.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Glad to hear it :thumbsup: , maybe some day i can find the spare change to do the same.

 

 

Oh and what vehicle did you get the brake setup from?

[HOrnbrod]

What a fantastic change, the jeep is much more stable with the larger sway bar. No more rocking like a boat and I'm a lot more comfortable now if I have to make a dynamic maneuver to avoid a collision. Should have done this a long time ago.

 

The WJ front sway bar would be way overkill for me, but glad to see it helped. What I really think would help stability even more is a functional rear sway bar like the XJ's have. Our @$$ ends wobble like a guppie during a dynamic maneuver because there's nothing back there to prevent it and limit the oversteer to correct. The old SCAA racing MJs (like the one on Ebay that didn't sell - again) had what looked like a good rear sway design to keep things flat. If someone came up with a well designed rear bar for both the SWB and LWB MJs it would be a super hit for us. There was an attempt for a rear sway bar from an aftermarketeer, but it was poorly designed and used L brackets on the shock mounts with no end links and flat didn't work. I tried it. It sucked.

 

This is a pic I stole off the SCCA MJ Ebay listing showing a portion of the stabilizer bar on the SCCA racing MJ. It mounts to the reinforced existing X-member and frame using simple angle iron reinforcement and adjustable end links, and on the axle with bushed axle clamps. All this hardware can be outsourced easily. But I'd sure like to know where the actual torsion bar came from. Maybe an XJ rear bar?

 

[Comanche County]

The WJ front sway bar would be way overkill for me, but glad to see it helped. What I really think would help stability even more is a functional rear sway bar like the XJ's have. Our @$$ ends wobble like a guppie during a dynamic maneuver because there's nothing back there to prevent it and limit the oversteer. The old SCAA racing MJs (like the one on Ebay that didn't sell - again) had a good rear sway design and kept things flat. If someone came up with a well designed rear bar for both the SWB and LWB MJs it would be a super hit for us.

 

Yeah I agree, its probably too stiff for stock or near stock rides and a V8 ZJ bar would probably suffice. But I'd bet the same bar could be made to fit the rear axle also. Or even better would be a sway bar that doesn't have the bend in the center. That way you could just adjust the mounts to the width of the frame rails and attach the end links to the axle with some 1/2 bolt shock mounts or some bar pins like the XJ rear sway. I'm going to crawl under the truck tomorrow and see if I can figure something out that would be easy to do with JY parts.

 

In my case, it probably wouldn't matter cause I have double main leafs and the truck is pretty stiff back there. But considering how nose heavy it is, this new fatter bar sure seems to even out the front to rear weight difference and practically eliminate front end dive when braking into corners.

 

Oh and what vehicle did you get the brake setup from?

 

From a 99' v8 WJ Limited. I went to two yards and a lot of them were very rusty. I found one with a really clean set of calipers and rotors and very thick pads. Turns out the calipers had a "reman" stamp on them. Looks like it got a complete brake job and was junked soon after. I used everything off of it, pads and all, and I only ran a palm sander on the rotors, some flash rust but they weren't too bad, plus I'm kinda broke right now. I'll get new rotors later on when I've got some dough. Overall this was a super easy swap, just need the WJ stuff, a 1/4" spacer and the newer unit bearings, Jeep p/n 5016458 or Timken HA597449.

 

Extra pics. The new rotor on the right. Next time I see an 00'-01' XJ in the yard, I'll grab the unit bearings for trail spares.

 

 

[HOrnbrod]

I edited my original post regarding the rear sway bar - we are thinking similarly.