Verizon work stoppage...lovely

[jeepdoggydogB]

Still no FiOS service...

 

Still tethering through my iPhone...

 

Still no Verizon technicians...

 

My uncle has an old Verizon lift truck that I may just borrow, park in front of my house and inspect the fiber cable at the pole. I'll be sure to put on a Verizon-like uniform and hard hat so I look the part.

how do u able to tethering through your iphone???? I'm been try to do that? jailbreak?

I can "tether" or create a personal hotspot on my iphone 4 for my IPAD. I am not "jailbroken" as this feature was added thanks to all the good folks that got their iphone 3G's jailbroken for just such a feature. All you hackers keep it up! Apple is listening to you. As for the Verizon unions I must say there is nothing on the list of proposed concessions that I would want want my wife and children to do without. I guess what I am saying is I can understand folks wanting to pay less, but I can also understand a provider for their family to want all of the perks they can get.

So Peace to all of you and I hope despite all the possible divisiveness a topic like this can create, just know I really support working American's and the companies that employ them. I hope at a corporate and family level we are not asked to accept third world wages or profits.

 

Thanks! Dog.

[jpnjim]

So Peace to all of you and I hope despite all the possible divisiveness a topic like this can create, just know I really support working American's and the companies that employ them. I hope at a corporate and family level we are not asked to accept third world wages or profits.

 

:cheers:

 

 

Politically I'm somewhere between far right, and center right, depending on the subject,

but I don't have the hatred of private unions that many to the right do.

 

When two companies come to an agreement (to sell/buy/share information with each other/whatever),

what do they do?

 

They sign a contract.

 

I have no problem with workers for that company doing the same.

 

All the job protection stuff is tough for me to swallow,

but Verizon has been eliminating that stuff a little bit at a time over the last few contracts.

 

That's their right,

that stuff was negotiated in over 50 years (before Verizon bought in, and inherited the union),

it's their right to negotiate it out again if they choose.

 

 

Their tactic was to 'ask' for everything back all at once,

which is also their prerogative,

but it's almost certain to result in a strike (don't think for a second that Verizon didn't know that).

 

 

I only chime in to debate that the work stopage is ENTIRELY the fault of 'greedy' unions.

 

[jeepdoggydogB]

So Peace to all of you and I hope despite all the possible divisiveness a topic like this can create, just know I really support working American's and the companies that employ them. I hope at a corporate and family level we are not asked to accept third world wages or profits.

 

:cheers:

 

 

Politically I'm somewhere between far right, and center right, depending on the subject,

but I don't have the hatred of private unions that many to the right do.

 

When two companies come to an agreement (to sell/buy/share information with each other/whatever),

what do they do?

 

They sign a contract.

 

I have no problem with workers for that company doing the same.

 

All the job protection stuff is tough for me to swallow,

but Verizon has been eliminating that stuff a little bit at a time over the last few contracts.

 

That's their right,

that stuff was negotiated in over 50 years (before Verizon bought in, and inherited the union),

it's their right to negotiate it out again if they choose.

 

 

Their tactic was to 'ask' for everything back all at once,

which is also their prerogative,

but it's almost certain to result in a strike (don't think for a second that Verizon didn't know that).

 

 

I only chime in to debate that the work stopage is ENTIRELY the fault of 'greedy' unions.

 

To most that know me here I am very far to the right, but I also love my family and remember the Christmas Eve family get togethers the best healthcare I could get for my loved ones, camping with my Father, and Uncle and cousins on weekends, and enough extra pay to get my family to buy oreos, ding dongs. or hostess cupcakes when times were good. I get it that companies must make a decent profit to stay in business, I also get that to keep our families enjoying the same sort of things that I and past generations enjoyed costs money too. God Bless to all hard working American's, I hope I can see my offspring enjoy all that America had to offer me.

:USAflag:

[jpnjim]

God Bless to all hard working American's, I hope I can see my offspring enjoy all that America had to offer me.

:USAflag:

 

this ^^^^^

 

:thumbsup: :cheers:

[HOrnbrod]

I get it that companies must make a decent profit to stay in business, I also get that to keep our families enjoying the same sort of things that I and past generations enjoyed costs money too. God Bless to all hard working American's, I hope I can see my offspring enjoy all that America had to offer me. :USAflag:

 

We all want that Joe. Made in the USA and all that. In order for US companies to make that decent profit, costs must be cut, because the ferocious overseas competition is killing US companies one by one. It will not stop, it will only get worse. I have no answer or cure. Hoping things get better won't get it done. We, the USA, the unions and management, must adapt or die. Keeping our families enjoying the same same benefits as past generations ain't happening any more. AAARG. I'm glad I'm retired and okay (for the moment) and not just starting out as my kids are and all our kids are. It's a different world out there now and time to get get everyone's heads out of the sand.

[Incommando]

 

that stuff was negotiated in over 50 years (before Verizon bought in, and inherited the union),

it's their right to negotiate it out again if they choose.

 

I only chime in to debate that the work stopage is ENTIRELY the fault of 'greedy' unions.

 

 

My point is not that anything is one side's fault but that expecting benefits that were the norm from 50,40,30, etc..years ago without expecting pay grades from the same era is not at all realistic to today's economy. Adapt or die. Many unions refused to adapt and the American economy is littered with the corpses of entire industries that died as a result. I don't see that companies have the time to take 50, 40, 30, etc... years to slowly adapt to the new reality. That means wholesale changes must be made expediently.

 

Example: A low or no co-pay insurance policy decades ago may have cost an employer 5% of an employee's pay. If that policy now costs 20% of base pay, why should the company be expected to eat that 15%? If the unions were truly being "fair" they would consider the cost of the program, not the benefit level, as well. But I have rarely if ever seen them do it.

 

Either way, failing to adapt and holding a company hostage by work stoppages is a tactic from the great economy days and I don't think it will work out as well as is hoped in today's climate. Folks need to remember that a company does not exists to provide jobs, or a service, but that their main priority is to make a profit for the owners/shareholders. It seems harsh put out there so plainly, but that is also a reality whether it is a pleasant reality or not.

 

I also cannot get on board with the fact that the policies are dead wrong for public employees but not for private sector ones. If the policies are outdated they are outdated and I think that people who expect them to continue will soon be outdated in the job market. This is not what I want so much as what I see as inevitable. :dunno:

[jpnjim]

I have a different perspective than you do, so I'll share mine with you.

My point is not that anything is one side's fault but that expecting benefits that were the norm from 50,40,30, etc..years ago without expecting pay grades from the same era is not at all realistic to today's economy. Adapt or die. Many unions refused to adapt and the American economy is littered with the corpses of entire industries that died as a result. I don't see that companies have the time to take 50, 40, 30, etc... years to slowly adapt to the new reality. That means wholesale changes must be made expediently.

 

There's a bunch I could say to this, but it would be mostly opinion, likely long winded,

and probably fall on deaf ears since your old enough to have made up your mind already (as have I).

 

Example: A low or no co-pay insurance policy decades ago may have cost an employer 5% of an employee's pay. If that policy now costs 20% of base pay, why should the company be expected to eat that 15%? If the unions were truly being "fair" they would consider the cost of the program, not the benefit level, as well. But I have rarely if ever seen them do it.

 

At this,

I'd have to ask what your experience with unions has been?

(manufacturing, construction, government, etc?)

 

I am in a construction union (Union Electrician),

and how our health care for construction unions works is this:

 

Each trade negotiates with the contractors association for an overall hourly pay rate:

$xx an hour.

Done.

 

Our hourly pay + any pension/annuity/401k/additional benefits/whatever that we desire,

is divided out of that $xx an hour pay.

 

The contractors are not on the hook for any longterm healthcare costs, pensions, annuities, 401k's, beyond that hourly negotiated total package.

Nothing.

 

They pay us,

then send whatever portion of that above negotiated pay to the union that is decided,

and they are done.

 

Zero long term costs to the contractor.

 

 

How could there be/

Company XYZ might have a huge contract,

a job with 500 guys working,

then next year have just a handful of guys.

 

Leftover costs for last years employees would sink them.

 

Our healthcare cost per hour has gone up with every single contract.

At times our pay has actually decreased to cope with this.

 

Furthermore, we choose to be self insured,

meaning the hourly portion of our pay that we allot to healthcare does not buy insurance,

it directly pays our healthcare bills.

 

I don't see how anyone could have a more responsible healthcare system than that.

 

 

 

 

Either way, failing to adapt and holding a company hostage by work stoppages is a tactic from the great economy days and I don't think it will work out as well as is hoped in today's climate. Folks need to remember that a company does not exists to provide jobs, or a service, but that their main priority is to make a profit for the owners/shareholders. It seems harsh put out there so plainly, but that is also a reality whether it is a pleasant reality or not.

 

I also cannot get on board with the fact that the policies are dead wrong for public employees but not for private sector ones. If the policies are outdated they are outdated and I think that people who expect them to continue will soon be outdated in the job market. This is not what I want so much as what I see as inevitable. :dunno:

 

Time for me to go to work ;)

 

I'll lend my opinion to the rest of this if your interested later.

 

 

Jimmy. :cheers:

[Incommando]

Oh I am interested. I have no rancor involved with this at all.

 

Yes, there are certainly two main types of unions: Those that act as a bargaining unit for a group of employees that are directly employed by a company and then those that are "collectives" that basically employ all of the workers in a field and force companies needing workers within those fields to use their people at their prices and woe be to anyone who tries to bypass their collective. My experience is with the first group. Many view the 2nd type in particular as blackmail and extortion, and it is no secret that many of these groups are closely tied to groups who make blackmail, extortion, smuggling, etc... their main business. ;)

 

Just as I should have the right to work where I want, a company should be able to hire who they want and not be forced to use one collective's labor pool IMHO. If the wage and benefit package the company is offering is not competitive, they will not have employees. This is a simple economic fact but the collectives refuse to even entertain such competetion in most venues indicating that they realize the collective cannot compete without extreme measures. Of course companies do not get the chance to refuse to bow to the collective as it invites extortion at the least... The tactics employed by the collectives over the decades to support their monopolies ( nicest word I could think of) are obvious. If they cannot protect their monopoly they cease to exist. So they borrow tactics from their "family" business partners to insure their monopolies.

 

Unions have done a world of good for American workers but like any good thing they have gone way too far in the opinion of growing numbers of Americans. Certain IUE workers getting caught selling crack, heroin, oxy... to fellow auto workers cannot even be fired on the first offense in cases I am very aware of due to the collectives protection racket. No, not using drugs on the job: selling them.

 

As I mentioned before, only time will tell whether the unions price themselves out of the market. It is easier now to disband a company, re-incoprate in a mail box in Switzerland, and start over without being under the collectives' thumbs. There are also plenty of reasons that new jobs avoid the "organized labor" areas like the plaque yet the employees getting the new jobs are getting good pay, good benefits, and fair working conditions without making the upper level collective thugs rich off of their racket. People complain about the CEO's salaries but turn a blind eye to the above and below table compensation of their collective's overloards. :wall: And the collective strong holds, areas whose notations for crime and corruption go far beyond the labor issue not incidentally, lose jobs and population while the other areas show what little job growth their is to be seen. I am certain there is a direct connection.

[jpnjim]

Oh I am interested. I have no rancor involved with this at all.

 

Yes, there are certainly two main types of unions: Those that act as a bargaining unit for a group of employees that are directly employed by a company and then those that are "collectives" that basically employ all of the workers in a field and force companies needing workers within those fields to use their people at their prices and woe be to anyone who tries to bypass their collective. My experience is with the first group. Many view the 2nd type in particular as blackmail and extortion, and it is no secret that many of these groups are closely tied to groups who make blackmail, extortion, smuggling, etc... their main business. ;)

 

By this definition, I am a member of the second type.

 

I'll let you decide where the extortion & blackmail are in my work history:

 

 

 

I have worked 34,000 hours in the past 23 years.

(I just got a pension statement).

 

In that time:

I have never turned down a job,

and never quit a job.

 

When I am out of work, I sign the work list, and wait.

The shortest I had to wait has been a day, or two.

The longest was 29 months. (18 of that w/o unemployment).

 

 

More than 1/2 my career has been for small shops (1 to 10 guys).

 

If you ever worked for a small company,

I don't have to tell you it doesn't last for long without production, and money coming in.

 

 

 

Currently I work for a dozen man shop,

including the two, working electrician owners (who chose to open this shop union).

 

We do all types of electrical work,

personally, my niche job finds me on union, and nonunion jobs.

 

When I am the only Union Electrician on a job (among 100+ non union guys),

it should be obvious that no one is being extorted, or blackmailed to hire me.

 

 

 

Before this I worked for a 2 man shop (the owner & I) for 9 years.

That guy also opened shop as a union company.

 

 

There were maybe 8 other Union companies before that,

working for them for anywhere from 2 weeks, to 4 years.

 

 

Since I'm pointing out misconceptions,

let me point out that there is ZERO job protections here.

 

Today might be your last day,

you'll know when they bring your paycheck.

 

It doesn't matter if you've been in the union for 30 years, or joined yesterday.

They can drop you today, tomorrow, or whenever.

There is NO SENIORITY,

it does not exist.

 

There is also no severance pay, residual pay, legacy costs, grievances for layoffs, complaints, or lawsuits.

When they are done with you,

their obligation is also done.

 

 

Also, there is no sick pay, vacation pay, holiday pay, nothing.

 

 

If you are not physically there on the job working,

you do not get paid.

 

 

 

 

 

I do however have a pension, and an annuity.

 

A portion of my pay goes directly to the union to put into separate accounts for these.

 

The union retains, and invests that money on my behalf, so (hopefully) there will be something left for me to retire with.

 

The union also retains my medical money (as mentioned in the above post),

and pays out those claims as well.

 

I prefer a separate entity (the union) from the company I work for handle these three things.

 

Since the company I work is not holding the pension/annuity/healthcare money,

I am insulated from any financial problems they may have in the future.

 

Not handling these funds also leaves them with ZERO legacy costs to deal with.

 

 

Please take the time to read what I wrote in this and the above post.

 

Should I feel that a union as I've described it is a bad thing for me, my employer, or America,

and why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just as I should have the right to work where I want, a company should be able to hire who they want and not be forced to use one collective's labor pool IMHO. If the wage and benefit package the company is offering is not competitive, they will not have employees. This is a simple economic fact but the collectives refuse to even entertain such competetion in most venues indicating that they realize the collective cannot compete without extreme measures. Of course companies do not get the chance to refuse to bow to the collective as it invites extortion at the least... The tactics employed by the collectives over the decades to support their monopolies ( nicest word I could think of) are obvious. If they cannot protect their monopoly they cease to exist. So they borrow tactics from their "family" business partners to insure their monopolies.

 

Unions have done a world of good for American workers but like any good thing they have gone way too far in the opinion of growing numbers of Americans. Certain IUE workers getting caught selling crack, heroin, oxy... to fellow auto workers cannot even be fired on the first offense in cases I am very aware of due to the collectives protection racket. No, not using drugs on the job: selling them.

 

These are not my experiences in my union,

since people tend to lump all unions together,

taking the worst from each,

many are getting an undeserved bad rap.

 

I could be laid off today,

and the boss could hire his brother in law, cousin, or dog groomer tomorrow if he wanted to.

No protection for me.

 

As I mentioned before, only time will tell whether the unions price themselves out of the market. It is easier now to disband a company, re-incoprate in a mail box in Switzerland, and start over without being under the collectives' thumbs. There are also plenty of reasons that new jobs avoid the "organized labor" areas like the plaque yet the employees getting the new jobs are getting good pay, good benefits, and fair working conditions without making the upper level collective thugs rich off of their racket. People complain about the CEO's salaries but turn a blind eye to the above and below table compensation of their collective's overloards. :wall: And the collective strong holds, areas whose notations for crime and corruption go far beyond the labor issue not incidentally, lose jobs and population while the other areas show what little job growth their is to be seen. I am certain there is a direct connection.

 

It's more difficult to outsource construction costs (though not impossible),

so a Switzerland mailbox isn't going to change anything in construction,

and as I said, every single company I have worked for came into the union of their own accord.

 

 

Feel free to ask questions, or poke holes in my story.

I am not hiding anything, or lying about any facts.

 

 

I work hard,

I have no protection,

there are no legacy costs to my employer beyond my hourly rate.

and I am a Union Member with a Pension, and an Annuity.

 

And that works very well for me. :thumbsup:

[terrawombat]

Unions, schmunions. Verizon needs to hire some SCABS to get the work done while all of the big wigs sit around a fancy oak table and negotiate. If I don't get some sort of substantial credit for the lost service, I'm going to be PISSED.

[jpnjim]

Unions, schmunions. Verizon needs to hire some SCABS to get the work done while all of the big wigs sit around a fancy oak table and negotiate. If I don't get some sort of substantial credit for the lost service, I'm going to be PISSED.

 

They have plenty of scabs,

they just prioritize where they go.

 

(= not to individual homes & small businesses)

 

 

One (State) job I just finished has had 3 Verizon replacement workers there since Friday doing a final changeover.

(I was gone before they got there, but I've never seen a regular Verizon guy need more than a day, or two for a changeover like this).

 

 

Honestly,

Verizon knew full well they would have a strike on their hands with this list of demands.

 

They also know that their older buildings & equipment need constant, specialized maintenance.

 

Normally they have union maintenance guys with 20+ years of experience maintaining equipment that was old when they got there.

 

Even as an electrician, I would have zero chance of keeping up with the specialized maintenance these older buildings need.

 

If this was going to be Verizon's tactic,

they really should have planned better. :doh:

 

BTW Terra,

I do feel bad killing your thread with all the Union stuff,

 

If I had Mod Powerz I'd divide it into a 2 separate threads,

a technical one,

and Union firestorm.

 

Good luck.

 

[jeepdoggydogB]

I get it that companies must make a decent profit to stay in business, I also get that to keep our families enjoying the same sort of things that I and past generations enjoyed costs money too. God Bless to all hard working American's, I hope I can see my offspring enjoy all that America had to offer me. :USAflag:

 

We all want that Joe. Made in the USA and all that. In order for US companies to make that decent profit, costs must be cut, because the ferocious overseas competition is killing US companies one by one. It will not stop, it will only get worse. I have no answer or cure. Hoping things get better won't get it done. We, the USA, the unions and management, must adapt or die. Keeping our families enjoying the same same benefits as past generations ain't happening any more. AAARG. I'm glad I'm retired and okay (for the moment) and not just starting out as my kids are and all our kids are. It's a different world out there now and time to get get everyone's heads out of the sand.

And there in lies the rub, competing with third world labor and living conditions would require us to pay third world compensation to reduce costs here. Aspiring to third world conditions isn't adaptin, it is declining.

[terrawombat]

Haha I don't care about the threadcrap. I just want my FiOS back dammit.

[jeepdoggydogB]

Haha I don't care about the threadcrap. I just want my FiOS back dammit.

I can relate, in 2004 I had AOL Broadband (which was contracted through SBC/ATT) Because of a contract dispute between AOL and ATT I was without internet for over a month, and back then ther were no dataplans, smart phones or tablets. :ack:

[Incommando]

I'll let you decide where the extortion & blackmail are in my work history:

 

[b]I am not laying blame on individual workers but to ignore the tactics and history of the major trade unions iof this nature is not possible for me[/b]

I have worked 34,000 hours in the past 23 years.

(I just got a pension statement).

 

In that time:

I have never turned down a job,( provided by your union and probably allocated to some extent on time in the union))and never quit a job.

 

When I am out of work, I sign the work list (for your true employer your union), and wait.

The shortest I had to wait has been a day, or two.

The longest was 29 months. (18 of that w/o unemployment).

 

More than 1/2 my career has been for small shops (1 to 10 guys).

 

If you ever worked for a small company,

I don't have to tell you it doesn't last for long without production, and money coming in.

 

Currently I work for a dozen man shop

 

Before this I worked for a 2 man shop (the owner & I) for 9 years.

 

There were maybe 8 other Union companies before that,

 

Since I'm pointing out misconceptions,

let me point out that there is ZERO job protections here.

 

Today might be your last day,

you'll know when they bring your paycheck.

 

It doesn't matter if you've been in the union for 30 years, or joined yesterday.

They can drop you today, tomorrow, or whenever.

There is NO SENIORITY There is no senority in the assignment of jobs by your employer, the union? How would you have seniority in a company for whom you do not actual work but are subcontracted to,

it does not exist.

 

There is also no severance pay, residual pay, legacy costs, grievances for layoffs, complaints, or lawsuits.

When they are done with you,

their obligation is also done. same argument

Also, there is no sick pay, vacation pay, holiday pay, nothing.

If you are not physically there on the job working,

you do not get paid.

I do however have a pension, and an annuity.

A portion of my pay goes directly to the union to put into separate accounts for these.

The union retains, and invests that money on my behalf, so (hopefully) there will be something left for me to retire with.

The union also retains my medical money (as mentioned in the above post),

and pays out those claims as well.

I prefer a separate entity (the union) from the company I work for handle these three things.

 

Since the company I work is not holding the pension/annuity/healthcare money,

I am insulated from any financial problems they may have in the future.

Not handling these funds also leaves them with ZERO legacy costs to deal with.

Please take the time to read what I wrote in this and the above post.

 

Should I feel that a union as I've described it is a bad thing for me, my employer, or America,

and why?

 

Is it safe to say that you have never actually worked for these shops as you state? If I understand your claim about the type of union you belong to, you have in actuality worked for the Union the entire time and as such should not expect to recieve any benefits from a company that you were basically sub-contracted to by your real employer, your Union? If in fact you have only worked for your Union, then most of these claims do not apply

 

Just as I should have the right to work where I want, a company should be able to hire who they want and not be forced to use one collective's labor pool IMHO. If the wage and benefit package the company is offering is not competitive, they will not have employees. This is a simple economic fact but the collectives refuse to even entertain such competetion in most venues indicating that they realize the collective cannot compete without extreme measures. Of course companies do not get the chance to refuse to bow to the collective as it invites extortion at the least... The tactics employed by the collectives over the decades to support their monopolies ( nicest word I could think of) are obvious. If they cannot protect their monopoly they cease to exist. So they borrow tactics from their "family" business partners to insure their monopolies.

 

Unions have done a world of good for American workers but like any good thing they have gone way too far in the opinion of growing numbers of Americans. Certain IUE workers getting caught selling crack, heroin, oxy... to fellow auto workers cannot even be fired on the first offense in cases I am very aware of due to the collectives protection racket. No, not using drugs on the job: selling them.

 

These are not my experiences in my union,

since people tend to lump all unions together,

taking the worst from each,

many are getting an undeserved bad rap.

 

I could be laid off today,

and the boss could hire his brother in law, cousin, or dog groomer tomorrow if he wanted to.

No protection for me.

Again, if what you state about the type of union that you belong to is true, you do not work for an individual company at all but the union itself. How can you be laid off from something to which you do not belong? Your services are hired through your union and not the individual company, true?

 

As I mentioned before, only time will tell whether the unions price themselves out of the market. It is easier now to disband a company, re-incoprate in a mail box in Switzerland, and start over without being under the collectives' thumbs. There are also plenty of reasons that new jobs avoid the "organized labor" areas like the plaque yet the employees getting the new jobs are getting good pay, good benefits, and fair working conditions without making the upper level collective thugs rich off of their racket. People complain about the CEO's salaries but turn a blind eye to the above and below table compensation of their collective's overloards. :wall: And the collective strong holds, areas whose notations for crime and corruption go far beyond the labor issue not incidentally, lose jobs and population while the other areas show what little job growth their is to be seen. I am certain there is a direct connection.

 

It's more difficult to outsource construction costs (though not impossible),

so a Switzerland mailbox isn't going to change anything in construction,

and as I said, every single company I have worked for came into the union of their own accord.

 

A Switzerland mail box is exactly how more and more companies avoid the US's stupid 35% corporate tax and union extortion deals.

 

Bowing to organized labor does not mean third world wages and benefits. The rural areas of this country are showing job growth, and have been for decades, by providing good jobs at fair salaries

 

 

Feel free to ask questions, or poke holes in my story.

I am not hiding anything, or lying about any facts.

 

 

I work hard,

I have no protection,

there are no legacy costs to my employer beyond my hourly rate.

and I am a Union Member with a Pension, and an Annuity.

 

And that works very well for me. :thumbsup:

 

I am not implying that you personally extort anyone, but again the histroy of organized labor in America is plain to see. Don't use teamsters for your trucking? Hmmm...too bad about that fire. Especially in the east coast strongholds of organized labor. Again, a theme that keeps getting repeated: Is your employer your union or the actual company? Those companies contract with your union for your services, I am betting, and do not hire you directly ( see claims about "signing the work sheet" etc...) . If I am wrong I am wrong. If I am right than you actually work for your union and a contracted job site, yes? You have worked at various job sites for your UNION or the basic element of my definition of the two types of union s has been missed in your argument and you should self-identify as someone working for a company who has a union bargaining unit. And are you honestly saying that many places are not required to hire only union workers and, if they try to avoid that, work stoppages are the least of their worries?

 

Rural America has seen steady job growth by avoiding union strong areas and still providing decent jobs at fair wages. Not bowing to unions is not the same as third world wages. Compensating unskilled labor nearlyy $100 an hour when benes are factored in and only being allowed to work them 45 minutes of an hour and them barely doing work then or else they "call the union dog on ya" ( true story often bragged about by a neighbor who is a retired auto plant worker) existed for far too long and still exists today. And it is killing us. IMHO

[jpnjim]

 

In that time:

I have never turned down a job,

( provided by your union and probably allocated to some extent on time in the union))

 

It's complicated (I am willing to explain it),

but no, the union job I currently have did not come from the hall.

I received a call when I was out of work, and was offered a job by the company.

THEN I went through the hall to actually TAKE the job (there are rules to solicitation).

 

As far as jobs through the hall,

everyone laid off must sign the out of work list.

Names are called off the out of work list in the order that they signed.

How long you were with a company, or the union does not matter.

If you signed today, and I signed yesterday,

I will be called first.

 

 

 

 

 

There is NO SENIORITY

There is no senority in the assignment of jobs by your employer, the union?

 

Nope.

None.

See, misconceptions are funny,

even when I point them out many remain reluctant to believe.

 

I have no reason to lie,

I'm not recruiting for the union.

 

We have a referral list.

You MUST sign the list when you get laid off (I'll explain this more if you'd like as well).

The date you signed is listed right next to your name,

and they call names in order.

 

How would you have seniority in a company for whom you do not actual work but are subcontracted to

 

you don't.

Seniority does not exist in any form.

 

If the company lays you off, and chooses to hire you back,

they have 90 days to do it, or they have to follow more stringent referral/solicitation rules. (I'll explain this if you want too).

 

There is also no severance pay, residual pay, legacy costs, grievances for layoffs, complaints, or lawsuits.

When they are done with you,

their obligation is also done.

same argument

 

I don't understand, what was the argument?

 

No seniority, no protection, no residual pay.

 

It's construction,

if you don't work, you get laid off.

It's hard to counter 50 years of negativity towards 'lazy union members',

but that's how it really is.

 

Also, there is no sick pay, vacation pay, holiday pay, nothing.

If you are not physically there on the job working,

you do not get paid.

I do however have a pension, and an annuity.

A portion of my pay goes directly to the union to put into separate accounts for these.

The union retains, and invests that money on my behalf, so (hopefully) there will be something left for me to retire with.

The union also retains my medical money (as mentioned in the above post),

and pays out those claims as well.

I prefer a separate entity (the union) from the company I work for handle these three things.

 

Since the company I work is not holding the pension/annuity/healthcare money,

I am insulated from any financial problems they may have in the future.

Not handling these funds also leaves them with ZERO legacy costs to deal with.

Please take the time to read what I wrote in this and the above post.

 

Should I feel that a union as I've described it is a bad thing for me, my employer, or America,

and why?

 

Is it safe to say that you have never actually worked for these shops as you state?

 

I don't completely understand this either.

I worked for all the shops I had jobs with.

The union is only the referring agent, and the keeper of benefits/enforcer of the rules.

I am a union member,

but I actually work for whatever company signs my checks.

 

If I understand your claim about the type of union you belong to, you have in actuality worked for the Union the entire time and as such should not expect to recieve any benefits from a company that you were basically sub-contracted to by your real employer, your Union? If in fact you have only worked for your Union, then most of these claims do not apply

 

Again, it seems like splitting hairs to me,

but incase there is a specific reason for this question, I'll try to be clear.

The hall refers me to the job.

I take the job, and become an employee of company XYZ.

When XYZ lays me off,

I go back to the hall,

sign the book, and wait for another company to call the hall looking for men.

Alternatively, company XYZ, or ABC, or whomever may call me directly looking for me to work for them.

THEN I would still have to go through the hall to take the job, following the rules for solicitation.

There are alot of these rules (foreman call by name, 90 day recall, etc etc).

The rules make sence, and are there for a reason,

I can explain if you want.

 

 

 

No time for the rest right now (headed to work again),

but most people don't really understand how construction unions work,

and lump us in with protected teachers, state/federal workers, manufacturing, etc etc.

 

I know it's tough to swallow,

but not all unions are what everyone thinks they are.

 

:D

[jpnjim]

Welp,

looks like I'm in the club with you now Terra,

posting this from a PC tethered to my HTC phone.

 

Phone/Interwebz worked fine, before I went to work this morning,

just got home, and there's a crazy buzz on the line.

 

I can make calls, but the buzz is loud enough that you can not hear anyone over it.

DSL internet uses the same line, and that is not working at all.

 

Oh well,

I'm gonna check with the neighbors to see if they're down too.

[terrawombat]

Welcome to the club! Two weeks tomorrow for me.

 

This club sucks.

[jpnjim]

Welcome to the club! Two weeks tomorrow for me.

 

This club sucks.

 

When I picked up the phone, and heard BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

first thing I thought of was how long you've been waiting. :popcorn:

 

Oh well,

I spend too much time on the internet anyway. ;)

[terrawombat]

Looks like the strike is over.

 

I had a work order scheduled for tomorrow, anyway.

[jpnjim]

Well, at least you are at the front of the line now.

 

I'm glad they've decided to go back (for now),

hopefully it works out long term.

[terrawombat]

Verizon came around noon today. Replaced my ONT box and no change. They didn't have the equipment for testing the fiber line so went to another nearby truck to get it. Came back and determined that the line is bad, but they couldn't replace the line for me, but they would put a work order in for me to get it replaced. Time frame: unknown.

 

I can't even get mad about this anymore. It's almost laughable.

[jpnjim]

Lol, that sucks.

 

I've been working 7 days a week, so I haven't had as much innerwebz time anyway,

but I'll have to order some parts online soon.

Too bad the free tether program can't access encrypted/secure pages.

(phone is an HTC, and jailbreaking it is out)

Guess I'll have to order the parts on this little phone screen.

[terrawombat]

So I get an automated text message from Verizon that says my service request has been closed. To me closing a service request means it has been taken care of. So, an hour of holding on the customer support hotline and I explain the issue. Maybe because the strike is over they actually have people working now because they sent another crew out who is here right now.

 

They tested the central hub and said it's bad. But that hub feeds my parents house and their FiOS works. So they swap some wires around. Then I get a text message from my sister in law who is at my parents house - their FiOS went out. Then the service tech gets a call from HQ - Bristol myer squibb's FiOS went out (they have a facility behind our property). Now it's a big deal...

 

Looks like they'll be out here until it's fixed....I hope...

[jpnjim]

 

They tested the central hub and said it's bad. But that hub feeds my parents house and their FiOS works. So they swap some wires around. Then I get a text message from my sister in law who is at my parents house - their FiOS went out. Then the service tech gets a call from HQ - Bristol myer squibb's FiOS went out (they have a facility behind our property). Now it's a big deal...

 

Looks like they'll be out here until it's fixed....I hope...

 

LOL,

the plot thickens. :rotfl2:

 

Hope this is finally the end.

 

 

 

On my end,

the phone & innerwebz is still out,

and I'm having issues with the ebay radiator I just ordered

(mine's leaking, and the ebay seller lists stuff he doesn't have :doh: ).